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Thread: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

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    Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Does anyone know a good source of information to find out the actual sizes of instruments/instrument panels in the CLOD aircraft? I'm working on 3D printing some devicelink instruments, and while I can guess and extrapolate sizes based on sitting in the cockpit, it would be nice to get the dimensions correct from the start. I'm hoping to start with some basic instruments for Spitfire, Hurricane, BF109 like airspeed, altitude, manifold pressure, temperature, etc. I'm working up a proof of concept with a microcontroller, got some stepper motors coming to test out. Going to try some X27 instrumentation steppers for instruments that don't need a full 360 degree rotation, and NEMA 8 or 11 steppers for stuff that require > 360 degrees rotation like altimeter.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    A little while back there was a video posted of a guy who was building life-size replicas of aircraft and things he found interesting. Not sure if you watched the video or not, but in it he explained how he would buy a model kit, and measure the pieces; then based on the scale of the model, do math and extrapolate the full size of each component. Failing to find any documentation that would give you these sizes, this could be a viable option.

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Does anyone know a good source of information to find out the actual sizes of instruments/instrument panels in the CLOD aircraft? I'm working on 3D printing some devicelink instruments, and while I can guess and extrapolate sizes based on sitting in the cockpit, it would be nice to get the dimensions correct from the start. I'm hoping to start with some basic instruments for Spitfire, Hurricane, BF109 like airspeed, altitude, manifold pressure, temperature, etc. I'm working up a proof of concept with a microcontroller, got some stepper motors coming to test out. Going to try some X27 instrumentation steppers for instruments that don't need a full 360 degree rotation, and NEMA 8 or 11 steppers for stuff that require > 360 degrees rotation like altimeter.
    Our 3D guys could give you the exact measurements, but you'll understand that right now they are focused on something else.

    So wait till about 2 months after we release TF 5.0 and post again... and they'll probably be able to give you the exact details.

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Our 3D guys could give you the exact measurements, but you'll understand that right now they are focused on something else.

    So wait till about 2 months after we release TF 5.0 and post again... and they'll probably be able to give you the exact details.
    Sounds great...I'll check back in 2 weeks (wink), I mean, 2 months.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Our 3D guys could give you the exact measurements, but you'll understand that right now they are focused on something else.

    So wait till about 2 months after we release TF 5.0 and post again... and they'll probably be able to give you the exact details.
    Did you hear that folks...... Buzzsaw says it will be released in early August. You got to pay attention around here.

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Bill View Post
    Did you hear that folks...... Buzzsaw says it will be released in early August. You got to pay attention around here.
    To be clear, he said "Two months after they release TF5.0".
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    To be clear, he said "Two months after they release TF5.0".
    Yep, I was joking....

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    I have a collection of WW2 British instruments and would happily measure them for you.

    I haven't got time today but will start tomorrow and post them up as I go...unless someone beats me to it!!

    I will start with the boost gauge because this has the same dimensions as the circular, non-electric radiator and oil temperature gauges.

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I have a collection of WW2 British instruments and would happily measure them for you.

    I haven't got time today but will start tomorrow and post them up as I go...unless someone beats me to it!!

    I will start with the boost gauge because this has the same dimensions as the circular, non-electric radiator and oil temperature gauges.

    ~S~
    Thanks! That would be great!
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Does anyone know a good source of information to find out the actual sizes of instruments/instrument panels in the CLOD aircraft? I'm working on 3D printing some devicelink instruments, and while I can guess and extrapolate sizes based on sitting in the cockpit, it would be nice to get the dimensions correct from the start. I'm hoping to start with some basic instruments for Spitfire, Hurricane, BF109 like airspeed, altitude, manifold pressure, temperature, etc. I'm working up a proof of concept with a microcontroller, got some stepper motors coming to test out. Going to try some X27 instrumentation steppers for instruments that don't need a full 360 degree rotation, and NEMA 8 or 11 steppers for stuff that require > 360 degrees rotation like altimeter.
    Nails is probably your man !

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    I would agree with Highseas, especially for things like Hurricane (and Spitfire) fuel gauge, undercarriage indicator, MkVIII oxygen regulator (although I do have the gauges for one) and generally anything Hurricane.

    Most general instruments I have, but my speciality is DH Mosquito which we don't have yet but it did have some special/different bits - fuel gauges, flap gauge (early type), undercarriage indicator.

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Wonder if the people at this site might be able to help (Well they would help by asking you to buy their poster I'd imagine):

    https://www.davidbathe.com/instruments.html

    What about getting in touch with an air museum and asking if they could measure one or a few instruments to see if you could use the measurement as a reference?

    Has to be someone out there who would be willing to help.
    Last edited by farley; Jun-10-2020 at 07:28.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Hi Kendy, as promised some measurements...in mm courtesy of my trusty (?) set of calipers.

    First sheet is A4 in size and are photos of a later war Boost Pressure gauge I had handy but sizes are same for all gauges of this type with minute variations between manufacturers. My earlier ones being luminous are safely out of the way.

    Boost Gauge.jpg

    The next sheet is just pictures of gauges (not mine) that share this particular form and measurements.

    Boost Gauge - similar gauges.jpg

    If pictures do not expand when clicked on please let me know and I'll try something different.

    Have fun!

    ~S~
    Last edited by Marco; Jun-11-2020 at 10:59. Reason: Revised sheet of measurements
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Kendy, as promised some measurements...in mm courtesy of my trusty (?) set of calipers.

    First sheet is A4 in size and are photos of a later war Boost Pressure gauge I had handy but sizes are same for all gauges of this type with minute variations between manufacturers. My earlier ones being luminous are safely out of the way.

    Attachment 47924

    The next sheet is just pictures of gauges (not mine) that share this particular form and measurements.

    Boost Gauge - similar gauges.jpg

    If pictures do not expand when clicked on please let me know and I'll try something different.

    Have fun!

    ~S~
    Very nice! Thanks a lot. I look forward to seeing more.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Thanks Kendy, in case you missed it I have updated the first picture in my last posting because I have added a few extra measurements.

    Tonight's item is the Oil Pressure Gauge (suction gauge, early fuel pressure gauge, etc).

    Because this is a luminous type it lives with its twin, wrapped up in a nice heavy gauge plastic box out of the way and is also the reason I will only take external measurements.

    Oil Pressure Gauge.jpg

    Enjoy.

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Thanks Kendy, in case you missed it I have updated the first picture in my last posting because I have added a few extra measurements.

    Tonight's item is the Oil Pressure Gauge (suction gauge, early fuel pressure gauge, etc).

    Because this is a luminous type it lives with its twin, wrapped up in a nice heavy gauge plastic box out of the way and is also the reason I will only take external measurements.

    Oil Pressure Gauge.jpg

    Enjoy.

    ~S~
    gotta love dry flakey radium !

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by farley View Post
    Wonder if the people at this site might be able to help (Well they would help by asking you to buy their poster I'd imagine):

    https://www.davidbathe.com/instruments.html
    I think it is just a shame that with this level of work they go and mess up the very first sighting you get of the Oxygen Regulator Mk VIIIC (see left gauge...BOOST?) - right at the top (nearly) of the page and a total school boy error!

    What's even worse is that I found this page a long time ago with this error and it still hasn't been corrected - at least they got it right further down the page!

    Other than this, the detail seems to be absolutely fantastic.

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    gotta love dry flakey radium !
    Yup...and Granite - Cornwall's full of it!

    ~S~
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Yup...and Granite - Cornwall's full of it!

    ~S~
    Way back in the olden days when I was at university I was in a lecture about energy stuff. The lecturer said (quite rightlly) that the nuclear power plants in the uk had to dispose of coffee grounds as low level radioactive waste.

    I raised a question.

    What is the procedure if one of your employees is from Cornwall?

    Never did get an answer.

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Hmm...definitely food for thought...or could that be a pasty?

    The Cornish are experts at two things: pastys and digging very deep holes - no offense to the Cornish, after all I married one and her pastys are 'ansome!

    Before anyone starts, NO that is not a euphemism!

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hmm...definitely food for thought...or could that be a pasty?

    The Cornish are experts at two things: pastys and digging very deep holes - no offense to the Cornish, after all I married one and her pastys are 'ansome!

    Before anyone starts, NO that is not a euphemism!

    ~S~
    Titter !

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Thanks Kendy, in case you missed it I have updated the first picture in my last posting because I have added a few extra measurements.

    Tonight's item is the Oil Pressure Gauge (suction gauge, early fuel pressure gauge, etc).

    Because this is a luminous type it lives with its twin, wrapped up in a nice heavy gauge plastic box out of the way and is also the reason I will only take external measurements.

    Oil Pressure Gauge.jpg

    Enjoy.

    ~S~
    Great detail. Thanks again!
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Nice refs Marco! I'll have to add them to my Spitfire refs. Those gauges look hot.

    Kendy, I'll PM you my Spit Mk1/V/IX instrument panel drawings if that helps. I made a trim gauge a while back and stopped on the Spit project. Building a heli sim from a Cessna 150 fuselage right now.

    -Zeb
    Last edited by 69th_Zeb; Jun-11-2020 at 23:43.

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Glad you like them Zeb.

    Tonight's installment is another one of my self-isolated luminous gauges...the triple brake gauge.

    Brake Pressure Gauge.jpg

    Again this is a later war version, but one of the variants used in the mosquito which is why I have it!

    Enjoy

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Artificial Horizon tonight - the MkIB, same dimensions as the MkI only no radium paint and much, much cheaper!

    Artificial Horizon.jpg

    ~S~
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Thanks Kendy, in case you missed it I have updated the first picture in my last posting because I have added a few extra measurements.

    Tonight's item is the Oil Pressure Gauge (suction gauge, early fuel pressure gauge, etc).

    Because this is a luminous type it lives with its twin, wrapped up in a nice heavy gauge plastic box out of the way and is also the reason I will only take external measurements.

    Oil Pressure Gauge.jpg

    Enjoy.

    ~S~

    I'm drawing this up, but I don't see a vertical measurement for the location of the screws on the front. Center to center would be great, and I can assume they are symmetrical? For now, I'm assuming they are equidistant from the corners.
    Also, can I assume there is a plastic lens in the opening where the indicator is located. It's not open to the elements, right?

    Here's what I have so far.. the gray part will be the motor/PCB/Attachment:

    SpaceClaim_2020-06-14_12-29-28.png

    Thanks!

    Kendy
    Last edited by Kendy for the State; Jun-14-2020 at 12:32.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Hi Kendy,

    The screw centres line up in the horizontal and vertical planes. The smaller diagonal screws attach the brown cover to the instrument and the larger screws attach the whole thing to the panel.

    From measurements I took a year ago and are on this computer and agree pretty much with the measurements I have taken for you and saving me a trip to the loft I can say that:

    top screws centre line to bottom screws centre line is approx. 52.39mm
    left screws centre line to right screws centre line is approx. 20.3mm - this measurement is a touch less than I measured for you but the screw centres were all done by eye...so pretty good I feel.

    Finally, yes you are quite correct, there is indeed a plastic lens/face in the opening where the indicator is.

    I hope this helps you. What you've done so far looks pretty darn spot on. If I was as good I wouldn't have to buy the real thing!

    Another instrument tomorrow.

    ~S~
    Last edited by Marco; Jun-14-2020 at 17:54.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Kendy,

    The screw centres line up in the horizontal and vertical planes. The smaller diagonal screws attach the brown cover to the instrument and the larger screws attach the whole thing to the panel.

    From measurements I took a year ago and are on this computer and agree pretty much with the measurements I have taken for you and saving me a trip to the loft I can say that:

    top screws centre line to bottom screws centre line is approx. 52.39mm
    left screws centre line to right screws centre line is approx. 20.3mm - this measurement is a touch less than I measured for you but the screw centres were all done by eye...so pretty good I feel.

    Finally, yes you are quite correct, there is indeed a plastic lens/face in the opening where the indicator is.

    I hope this helps you. What you've done so far looks pretty darn spot on. If I was as good I wouldn't have to buy the real thing!

    Another instrument tomorrow.

    ~S~

    Here's what I have so far. PCB size is not finalized, so some interior dimensions may change based on that. Printing some sample parts now and will adjust the firmware to calibrate the stepper. This is obviously not supposed to be a museum-quality replica...just a close-enough facsimile to give the look-and-feel when in the cockpit.
    SpaceClaim_2020-06-17_15-22-52.png SpaceClaim_2020-06-17_15-23-51.png

    I'll probably work on the boost gauge next. Thanks for all your input!

    Regards,

    Kendy
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    "Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf

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  39. #29
    Supporting Member Marco's Avatar
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Looking really good Kendy!

    Sorry for not posting on Monday but I saw that someone had asked a question about Coop in the Tech forum and thought it better that all interested parties get to see any replies before this thread smothers it.

    Anyway, another one for you - the lowly voltmeter:

    5 Voltmeter.jpg

    Next posting will be an Air Speed Indicator and then the Direction Indicator.

    ~S~
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Looking really good Kendy!

    Sorry for not posting on Monday but I saw that someone had asked a question about Coop in the Tech forum and thought it better that all interested parties get to see any replies before this thread smothers it.

    Anyway, another one for you - the lowly voltmeter:

    5 Voltmeter.jpg

    Next posting will be an Air Speed Indicator and then the Direction Indicator.

    ~S~
    Is this one from a Spitfire? It doesn't look anything like the one in CLOD.
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
    32GB RAM
    NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
    1 TB SSD
    LG 4K 55" TV
    Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank

    "Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf

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