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Thread: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Here's a very rough first draft:

    IMG_20200617_232556129_compress27.jpg
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Hi Kendy,

    For a first draft and from where I'm sat that looks pretty impressive - keep it up, I can't wait to see more.

    As for the Voltmeter, this one I have because my collection is centred on the DH Mosquito. However, most of the british gauges and indicators were used in multiple aircraft types and only a very few were type specific, for example the U/C indicator in the Spitfire. This voltmeter would have been used on many different aircraft with a 24 volt system but has the same dimensions as the 12 volt voltmeter and, as I said, the ammeters and I think the charge/discharge gauges also, although I'm not sure.

    The computer I'm using now doesn't have Cliffs on it so I will have to fire up the other one and have a good old look at the electrics meters tomorrow and see if I have a proper picture for you. Anyway, tonight I have an Air Speed Indicator for you and have also included some pictures of alternatives more appropriate to the period in Clod, that is to say they are calibrated in MPH. Mine as you will notice is calibrated in Knots and although correct for certain marks of the Mosquito is a placeholder for a MPH calibrated version as and when I can find a decent one at the right price! Should you require more pictures, try here: http://spitfirespares.co.uk/Instrume...0page%202.html

    Measurements will be similar for all because they have to fit in the standard BFP. Here's mine for you and some pictures (not mine) of alternative calibrations...

    6 ASI.jpg

    6a ASI - Similar Gauges.jpg

    Enjoy!

    ~S~
    Last edited by Marco; Jun-18-2020 at 17:49.
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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  5. #33
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    You guys rock !

    I love these DIY threads.

    They are superb !

    Cheers gang !!

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    So I'm a little further along. I've decided to use a paper label instead of 3D printing the background. This is just a test of dial movement... when power is applied the indicator bangs against the bottom stop about 120 times to make sure it is bottomed out.Then it increments to the lowest position, then just exercises to the max and min positions. I haven't written the routines to convert motor steps to temperature yet. It's a pretty simple circuit; a PIC16 processor drives an H-bridge to drive the stepper motor. Ultimately the components will be on a PCB in the instrument body, and it will get its telemetry data over an i2c bus.



    Stay tuned for more updates!
    Last edited by Kendy for the State; Jun-19-2020 at 17:11.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Hi All,

    Tonight's naughty picture will be the 'Directional Indicator' or Directional Gyro Mk IA. This is my broken one (has the glass missing), I also have one in a BFP mock-up and a 'New Old Stock' Sperry still in its box and outer paper wrapping.

    Over the weekend I will hopefully try to find some time to dismantle said BFP mock-up to get the measurements of the Turn/Slip indicator and the Climb/Descent indicator and hopefully check out the electrics meters in the Spitfire cockpit.

    I might even surprise myself and get my ASI put in the BFP - getting a bit bored of having one empty space! Anyway, here is tonight's submission:

    7 Gyro Compass.jpg

    Have a great weekend.

    Stay Safe and Keep Well.

    ~S~
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    So I'm a little further along. I've decided to use a paper label instead of 3D printing the background. This is just a test of dial movement... when power is applied the indicator bangs against the bottom stop about 120 times to make sure it is bottomed out.Then it increments to the lowest position, then just exercises to the max and min positions. I haven't written the routines to convert motor steps to temperature yet. It's a pretty simple circuit; a PIC16 processor drives an H-bridge to drive the stepper motor. Ultimately the components will be on a PCB in the instrument body, and it will get its telemetry data over an i2c bus.



    Stay tuned for more updates!
    That Sir is, quite frankly, outstanding!

    From what I understand of Arduino things (still in the learning stages), a nano can drive the X27 directly and would represent an 'all in one' solution for you being also i2c'able. Obviously I don't know how it would stack up price-wise or how you intend to build the overall network.

    Great work - keep it up!

    ~S~
    Last edited by Marco; Jun-19-2020 at 17:29. Reason: spelling
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That Sir is, quite frankly, outstanding!

    From what I understand of Arduino things (still in the learning stages), a nano can drive the X27 directly and would represent an 'all in one' solution for you being also i2c'able. Obviously I don't know how it would stack up price-wise or how you intend to build the overall network.

    Great work - keep it up!

    ~S~
    The what now?!

    You guy's are on level 7

    I'm barely getting to level 2


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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That Sir is, quite frankly, outstanding!

    From what I understand of Arduino things (still in the learning stages), a nano can drive the X27 directly and would represent an 'all in one' solution for you being also i2c'able. Obviously I don't know how it would stack up price-wise or how you intend to build the overall network.

    Great work - keep it up!

    ~S~
    Arduino might be overkill... PIC processor is about 85 cents, H-bridge about 50 cents, PCB should be around 50 cents. Add another 50 cents for misc components. The most expensive part of this will be making the plastic parts. Will probably do a silicon mold to pour the cover from polyurethane resin, 3D print the back chassis. The costly part of this will be the time spent making the parts and assembling them. I'm aiming for a price point under $40-$50 per instrument. I haven't even started designing the controller board that will acquire telemetry from the computer via USB and transmit it to the individual instruments. Anyway, the X-27 is a uni-polar motor, so I don't think you could drive it motor without an H-bridge of some sort. You could drive a bi-polar motor directly, as long as it was small enough and didn't draw much current.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Not much new, just another iteration of the vertical pressure gauge, this time Fuel. Will start working on the firmware...may take a while, as I'm a crappy C programmer, but will get it figured out.

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Oil and Fuel - looking really good!

    Somewhere on this computer I have all sorts of stuff about X27 (have 6 in my parts drawer waiting for my brain to catch up with the world), I seem to recall that you can also use them as 360 steppers with a tiny bit of a modification - but you have to work out your own zeroing system. I'll have a look and see what I can turn out of the archives!

    Highseas, you're on the same level, it's just you're too busy juggling all your plates at the moment. Sim world is a place to go to when real life is in equilibrium and at the moment real life for many is a massive experiment in chaos theory!

    Stay Safe and Keep Well to everyone!

    ~S~
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Oil and Fuel - looking really good!

    Somewhere on this computer I have all sorts of stuff about X27 (have 6 in my parts drawer waiting for my brain to catch up with the world), I seem to recall that you can also use them as 360 steppers with a tiny bit of a modification - but you have to work out your own zeroing system. I'll have a look and see what I can turn out of the archives!

    Highseas, you're on the same level, it's just you're too busy juggling all your plates at the moment. Sim world is a place to go to when real life is in equilibrium and at the moment real life for many is a massive experiment in chaos theory!

    Stay Safe and Keep Well to everyone!

    ~S~
    Yes, I found out there is a little plastic stop on the last gear in the chain... the motor shell is held together with 3 plastic tabs; if you snap the shell apart you can use a very sharp pair of dikes (wire cutters) or a razor to trim off that stop, then snap the motor shell back together and you get infinite revolutions. As you say, there would need to be some sort of arrangement to zero the needle in those cases where you use more than the original ~ 310 degrees rotation. In the Spitfire and Hurricane it looks like we need around 560 degrees of rotation, so I think we'd need some sort of optical sensor in the circuit to know when the needle is at the zero point.

    For the altimeter I think I'll need to use a more powerful motor. This X27 doesn't have much torque, so I doubt it would power the gears I'd need for the multiple indicators of the British altimeter, or the rotating dial on the German altimeter. I bought a NEMA 8 motor that should do the trick with some gearing. It is a lot more expensive then the X27 though....~$14 through Amazon, probably under $10 in quantity from AliExpress or Alibaba.
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That Sir is, quite frankly, outstanding!

    From what I understand of Arduino things (still in the learning stages), a nano can drive the X27 directly and would represent an 'all in one' solution for you being also i2c'able. Obviously I don't know how it would stack up price-wise or how you intend to build the overall network.

    Great work - keep it up!

    ~S~
    So I've been doing some experimentation and it looks like you are right... I can drive these little steppers directly as they only draw 15-20 mA. Not sure how safe it is, as there's no protection from spikes, but in this case it may not matter as these needles probably don't have a lot of travel. I've been exercising one directly-driven gauge for a couple days and haven't noticed any problems, so I may leave the h-bridge out, at least on this particular PCB.
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  20. #43
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Hi Kendy, sorry I haven't posted for a bit - been a bit busy.

    Here are a few links to arduino and X27 driven bits and bobs. I have some more but they are buried quite deep in my various Favourites Folders.

    Anyway:

    https://www.instructables.com/id/Lan...duino-Project/

    https://guy.carpenter.id.au/gaugette...ble-on-tindie/

    https://www.mycockpit.org/forums/con...n-Analog-Gauge

    The second link is more to do with the breakout board created for the X25 (predecessor of X27) but a lot of gauge building threads using arduino and X25 and above reference Guy Carpenters stuff.

    The Third link is an overview of the X25 but is pertinent to the X27 also.

    I will continue to look for more references for you as I have time, but I am glad you discovered it through your own experimentation.

    I have started making up a measurement sheet for an altimeter and if I can finish it tonight I will put it up, but it will probably be tomorrow.

    Nearly forgot... the manufacturer (of which there seem to be many) of these little steppers also do a twin needle version - possible for the altimeter?

    ~S~
    Last edited by Marco; Jun-24-2020 at 17:16.
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Kendy, sorry I haven't posted for a bit - been a bit busy.

    Here are a few links to arduino and X27 driven bits and bobs. I have some more but they are buried quite deep in my various Favourites Folders.

    Anyway:

    https://www.instructables.com/id/Lan...duino-Project/

    https://guy.carpenter.id.au/gaugette...ble-on-tindie/

    https://www.mycockpit.org/forums/con...n-Analog-Gauge

    The second link is more to do with the breakout board created for the X25 (predecessor of X27) but a lot of gauge building threads using arduino and X25 and above reference Guy Carpenters stuff.

    The Third link is an overview of the X25 but is pertinent to the X27 also.

    I will continue to look for more references for you as I have time, but I am glad you discovered it through your own experimentation.

    I have started making up a measurement sheet for an altimeter and if I can finish it tonight I will put it up, but it will probably be tomorrow.

    Nearly forgot... the manufacturer (of which there seem to be many) of these little steppers also do a twin needle version - possible for the altimeter?

    ~S~
    Yes...X40, but I can't find it locally. $6 at aliExpress.
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  22. #45
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    Re: Question for DIY cockpit builders about instruments

    As promised back at the beginning of the week, but held off so that the other threads in The Technical Corner could get read and/or answered.

    Here is the altimeter:

    8 Altimeter.jpg

    I will now get round to finishing off the remaining two instruments from the blind flying panel and I will put them up as and when. In the meantime have a good week.

    Stay Safe and Keep Well.

    ~S~
    Possunt quia posse videntur (They can because they think they can) - 19 Squadron (originally Virgil)

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