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Yes indeedy, it really is.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had,
but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" - Leonard Nimoy
Indeed!
Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Jun-20-2020 at 22:47.
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Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Joystick ~ Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle ~ Thrustmaster TFRP Pedals
Look at the rivets in the bug's eye picking up shadows. They must have put some serious time in this model.
skud
i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s
Just my personal opinion, but I disagree.
To me this looks as what is called 'over-modelling' in scale-modelling.
Each and every detail is eactly modelled and so prominently visible that the overall impression is no longer realistic.
You get this often with aircraft scale models, on which pre-shading and riveting is over done. Everybody applaudes to the huge amount of work and care that went into it, but the end result is not really satisfying.
Sure looks like the real one!
ju88nose-600x359.jpga4 torp.PNG
Last edited by ATAG_SKUD; Jun-22-2020 at 07:40.
i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s
Well, I agree with Scud. That pic is just photo-realistic gorgeous to me.
It's just great to see modellers pushing the limits whether it is DCS, CloD, BoX, MS Flight Simulator or whoever.
When I started in flight sims in 2000 to what we have now and will have soon are worlds apart.
And then there is VR. I keep meeting players using VR who just couldn't go back to a flat screen now even tho the technology isn't perfect yet.
I just applaud the efforts of those pushing the limits in what is a very small niche market in comparison to the big money titles who number their player base in the millions.
System specs:
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League City, TX
My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
Colors aside-I think it has both accuracy and realism. The rivets are dead on. Why would you not model a detail in the size and shape that it originally appeared?
skud
Capture.jpg
i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s
The details dont appear overdone to me at all. The chips yes but the details no. The colours are way too light light with little differentiation for sure but the whole of DCS is a little screwed up colour/light wise as present so that may settle down. Ive had a good ole look at it in game and its pretty good overall to me.
I have a love hate relationship with overdetailing. The Aircraft in Bos clod and dcs are far prettier (LAs excepted - nothing can make them look pretty and the clod spitfire panel lines look Die Cast) than they look in the flesh due to all the neatly defined panel lines but i like the overall look - kind of like that perfect garage look of the cars in racing games. Take that way and you run the risk of being slagged off for poor detail and have a pretty bland looking model (as we did in the plastic kit world). And none of them really overdo (spitfire aside) it to the point of making the thing look like theres a 300 year patina on them (that every rivet must spring out look) or they should be carrying a CORGI manufacturers plate. There is point where nice becomes not so nice but i dont think any overstep it too much if at all.
BOS has or at least had (some of the newer models seem to have a less strighforward user editable normal map) a good advantage for skinners wanting more accuracy in that you can mess with the normal map to reduce your reliance on drawn and shaded panel lines. DCS too but its more involved than most would care to mess with (especially over the multiple templates most dcs aircraft require (6 or 7 for Tomcat). The 109 Fs that were originally produced by BlackHellHound and that are now official are good examples of this method.
As for colours ive long since stopped caring to GAF for the most part. The colour imaging of the day was off, the paint production process was varied, UV, dust, dirt, sand, best quess museum repaints of single surviving examples, scaling, definative references that later prove to be less than definative, the internet, rubbish colour plate drawings, game engine lighting, monitor set up..
..but that 88 is very light if thats RLM70/71 to my eye. Its why i asked what Slag thought was wrong as i no longer trust my monitor (or my eyes).
But if it bothers me i just fly up to the sparking tropical clear blue waters of the Thames on the DCS Channel Map to regain some perspective![]()
Last edited by BOO; Jun-27-2020 at 06:47.
My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
I think that what DerDa was simply trying to say was this ( in brief ):
The 3D model is superb but the general appearence of the image available here seem to give more the impression that you are looking at a painting made by a Flemish painter than to what you would imagine to see by looking at the real aircraft. From here, I presume, comes his statement about the general non-realistic appearence of the model/image available here.
Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Jun-27-2020 at 07:35.
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Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Joystick ~ Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle ~ Thrustmaster TFRP Pedals
My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
I can't judge because I do not own DCS but, yes, I presume you're pretty much on the spot.
There are a lot of games around that, when you see a YouTube video about them, they let you think " WOW!!! ", then when you buy the game and you start playing it, the " WOW!!! " becomes a " MIEOW!!! " quickly![]()
Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Jun-27-2020 at 08:02.
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My PC specs
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit ~ Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz 8MB Cache Quad core
ASUS ROG STRIX Z270H GAMING Motherboard, Socket 1151 ATX, Dual M.2, USB 3.1 Type-C ~ MSI GeForce GTX 1080 TI Gaming X 11G Graphic Card PCIE 3.0, 11 GB, GDDR5X 352 bit, 11.01 GHz, 1569 MHz
Samsung MZ-V6E250BW SSD 960 EVO, 250 GB, M.2, NVMe ~ Western Digital WD Caviar Blue 2TB 64MB Cache, WD20EZRZ (64MB Cache) ~ Enermax Liqmax II 240 (ELC-LMR240S-BS)
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LG 49UK6200PLA TV 49" 4K UltraHD, IPS Display, 4096 x 2160, Active HDR, Multitasking ~ LG 27UD68P Monitor 27" 4K UltraHD LED IPS, 3840 x 2160, AMD FreeSync, Multitasking
Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Joystick ~ Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle ~ Thrustmaster TFRP Pedals
I see what you mean by colors and overall effect looking like a painting. I have a couple of Robert Taylor prints that have that look.
What I like about it was the detail in the structure itself. In the Beetle's eye and cockpit, the annular radiator. The flanges on the airframe where it meets the beetle's eye, the different thickness in the glass, the framing of the glass, that gives the structure a 3D look. Also, the hydraulic tubing inside the cockpit, and yes the accurate and not overdone rivets.
If you look at BOS 88 the airframe is 2d with no thickness. It's just a shell. All the details are perceptions of depth approximated by painting the skin.
skud
Last edited by ATAG_SKUD; Jun-27-2020 at 08:35.
i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s
The DCS stills are mostly rendered like that. In game it looks a lot less Robert Taylor (whos painting i admire). Scheme wise you can be forgiven for initally thinking there is just a single upper colour used its so washed out. Im sure users will soon fix that. There are no other schemes available at the moment. Nor does there appear to be any payload other than torps which is a bit limiting so im assuming you didnt just sling fish onto a JU88 and there must be other unique features to torp bombers that make different payloads inaccurate.
We can dream about a full flyable version if the mosquito does well but more than likely DCS will decide that a Sopwith Camel or even a real camel is the most suitable module for the 1943-1993 time period the channel map seems to represent.
My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s
I also suspect that any Camel will be stuck in Dromedary EA for 2 years giving a lot of pre realease buyers the hump (or not)
......im here all week, matanee on a saturday and sommat blue for the dads on a sunday lunch.
My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, Gigabyte Z390 M Gaming MB,
Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 31ghz CPU, EVGA 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram,
Track IR5, 32” Gigabyte Curved Monitor 165hz, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, Reverb G2
League City, TX
Guys let's look at bright side at least is not painted in pink colour...![]()
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My PC specs
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ASUS ROG STRIX Z270H GAMING Motherboard, Socket 1151 ATX, Dual M.2, USB 3.1 Type-C ~ MSI GeForce GTX 1080 TI Gaming X 11G Graphic Card PCIE 3.0, 11 GB, GDDR5X 352 bit, 11.01 GHz, 1569 MHz
Samsung MZ-V6E250BW SSD 960 EVO, 250 GB, M.2, NVMe ~ Western Digital WD Caviar Blue 2TB 64MB Cache, WD20EZRZ (64MB Cache) ~ Enermax Liqmax II 240 (ELC-LMR240S-BS)
Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 Vengeance LPX RAM 16 GB, 2x8 GB, DDR4, 3000 MHz, CL15 ~ EVGA SuperNOVA GQ PSU 750W ~ NZXT CA-N450W-M1 Case for Gaming PC, Black
LG 49UK6200PLA TV 49" 4K UltraHD, IPS Display, 4096 x 2160, Active HDR, Multitasking ~ LG 27UD68P Monitor 27" 4K UltraHD LED IPS, 3840 x 2160, AMD FreeSync, Multitasking
Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Joystick ~ Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle ~ Thrustmaster TFRP Pedals
This has turned into a rather long thread.....To me the pic was taken during the "Golden Hour" granted the shadow side could be a little darker with a hint of blue. Over all the colour temp looks fine to my eye. We all see colour slightly different then throw in individual video settings and who know what can happen. It looks perfectly acceptable to shot down before she drops those torpedo's....if the boys bail out they can spend the rest of the war working on a farm in England or Canada with 3 squares a day.........it's all good![]()
There's something good waitin' down this road
I'm pickin' up whatever's mine.
"Tom Petty...Runnin' Down A Dream...Full Moon Fever"
i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s
I think this is a little harsh.
You could make the same statement about any video game in existence practically, so singling out DCS for such a statement seems a bit targeted. If that truly is your experience with DCS, that's a shame. We've had a blast with it and continue to do so. We've (about ten of us) been flying DCS as our Saturday night game to replace Cliffs for several years now and in general we've had a lot more success and enjoyment than failure and frustration.
-
To the OP's point, yes the 88 model in DCS is quite detailed and looks great. Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to get very close and slow with one to admire it since their gunners have it out for me with a vengeance....
I’ve downloaded and installed the Channel map and it’s been a ton of fun to fly the familiar shoreline from Manston to Dungeness. Comparisons with Clod are inevitable, but that’s what I really enjoy. Different in some ways, yet still brings a smile to my face. It’s kind of like visiting the old childhood neighbourhood after a lengthy absence. Familiar but different.
What I absolutely need to do is upgrade my aging equipment. Even at 1920 x 1080 the framerate is not as smooth as I’d like. 2K or 4K is totally out of the question. Clod runs very smooth for me at 1080p at max detail (“Very High”), but 2K and certainly 4K is really a nogo for smooth gameplay.
I just put this out there to say that I love having the choice - DCS Channel & Normandy, BoX Bodenplatte, and Clod (with Tobruk around the corner). Each sim has its unique strong points, each has its areas that can use more development. I’m loathe to disparage any, even slightly. It takes so much work to create these sims for, let’s face it, the very tough, knowledgeable, and discriminating crowd that we are.
This corner is dedicated to DCS. If anything, it needs to be expanded a bit. Let’s celebrate DCS’ huge accomplishments towards building the WW2 air combat sim genre in the spirit intended by the OP!
![]()
VR: None
HP Omen Laptop 15, AMD Ryzen 5 5600H 16 GB DDR4 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU 6 GB VRAM Win 11 64 bit 22H2 (KB5020044), Nvidia GeForce Driver ver 527.56, TrackIR 5, Gear Falcon Trim Box, Gear Falcon Throttle Quadrant, TM16000 joystick, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Quadrant, Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals
Installation path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz
Last edited by BOO; Jul-08-2020 at 17:11.
My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
Grumpy old Boo Boo![]()
![]()
Just kidding Boo.... (as i'm sure you know)
I have mixed feelings toward DCS. Same as with all sims actually... even my first love Cliffs
It's brilliant that in DCS I can fly helicopters.
Not really drawn by any of the plane stuff mind... got the spit... got the channel map and have far better options for both.
Like Snapper I also enjoyed my trip along the Kent coast... in VR no less (eek!! HOT topic!!) ... but... I can honestly say I'd still rather fly that route in Cliffs with Track IR. And frankly anyone who says 2d after VR is "immersion breaking" and so on has no sence of imagination.
In theatre circles it is called suspence of disbelief.
or in normal speak.... having the level of joy you had when you were still 7.... (and also enjoying it rather than supressing it).
I have a Valve Index. It's great.
Cliffs?..
Awesome without
When / if VR drops I will let you know how it compares... but I'm am super happy with Track IR for this...
Helicopter wise?!... DCS is absolutely the gold standard right now.
and the "BoX" Flying Cirus is simply awesome (and I only play that in VR).. its slow paced... so situational awareness is much easier.
Play them all...
They are all good at some stuff... just gotta figure out which of your "some stuff" you are interested in... and celebrate those
anyhooooo
oh.. also.. (stay on topic 'Seas) the thread title...
Yes..!
It looks lovely. (The plane) Splendid...![]()
Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Jul-08-2020 at 18:04.
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(Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey)
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Flat Screen Resolution 2560 x 1440 Gsync Monitor
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My Rig: Samsung 40" TV, 5600X on Air, RTX3080 FE, 32GB Gskill Neo 3600 CL16 RAM, M2 Gen 4 Drives, Corsair RM850X PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, Virpil Mongoose T50CM w/100mm extension, TIR5, EDtracker pro.
" Better a thorn on the outside than a prick on the inside"
- ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO - i9-13900k - ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC - 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR5 5600MHz -
- CORSAIR 1200w HX Series PSU - Corsair H100x Hydro Series CPU Cooler -
- Virpil T50 Mongoos with Warthog Grip plus Extension Set -
- TM Warthog Throttle -
- Slaw Device 109 Cam Rudder Pedals -
- HighseasPeripherals(tm) - Engine Switch Panel - Munitions Switch Panel - Throttle Quadrant Trim Box - Helicopter Collective - Analogue Brake Lever -
(Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey)
Windows 10 x64
Flat Screen Resolution 2560 x 1440 Gsync Monitor
SteamVR res: Set to 100% 3164x3092
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