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Thread: Learning the basics

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    Learning the basics

    I've taken off quite a lot now.
    Never attempted to land yet but when taking off I can only do in a hurricane.
    Which is OK for now.
    But I have a massive problem that makes me crash a lot, when taxing and building speed to takeoff my plane always goes to the side and I can never keep it straight I try to use the rudder a bit.
    Ive practiced a lot and can never keep on the runway

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Manuals for basic manouevres with most aircraft (including take-off and landing) will be provided with the upcoming release.

    Keeping straight during take-off is not easy especially in single engine planes, because of the massive torque. You have to learn to use your rudder to counter this which is a matter of (quite a lot of) practice.

    The best thing to flatten the learning curve always is to get Team Speak (free) and join a multiplayer server. You will certainly find someone willing to show you the basics.

    Don't give up!
    It's worth it!


    S!

    DerDa

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    Manual Creation Group ATAG_Marlow's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    I've taken off quite a lot now.
    Never attempted to land yet but when taking off I can only do in a hurricane.
    Which is OK for now.
    But I have a massive problem that makes me crash a lot, when taxing and building speed to takeoff my plane always goes to the side and I can never keep it straight I try to use the rudder a bit.
    Ive practiced a lot and can never keep on the runway
    Hi tayloruk.........good to have you with us! Your problem is very familiar to us and we've had all had to get to grips with it. DerDa is correct. Practice is required and quite a lot of it. Are you using rudder pedals or a joy stick with a twist grip? I used a Microsoft Sidewinder II (Non force feedback) with a twist grip for many years....great stick! I still have it. I have since moved on to a Sidewinder II with force feedback and I also treated myself to some rudder pedals last Christmas. I'm still getting used to the rudder pedals and find them more challenging than the twist grip.

    Both twist and pedal systems help you to cope with the torque that DerDa mentions. With the twist stick, I used to apply a tiny amount of rudder to keep the aircraft straight on the take off run but if I made adjustments tried to make them as small as possible...just enough....otherwise I found myself developing a nasty left/right swing that often led to disaster! Less is more...definitely applies here. After a while, this became so automatic so that if anybody asked me: 'are you applying rudder to offset the torque?' I would have to think before answering, 'yes!'

    If you find your stick does not give you the subtlety of control you need it may be that you need to adjust the sensitivity of your stick settings and this can be done 'in game' in 'Options.' - 'Controls' and then 'Axis.' (within 'Control Options')

    Settings are very subjective. Everybody has worked them out and set them on a 'what works best for me' basis.' It's trial and error...but this trial and error may help you gain the control of rudder you need to control that take off swing. For your information my settings are:


    Ailerons: Sensitivity 0.25

    0% Dead Zone 0.00

    100% Dead Zone 0.25


    Elevator: Sensitivity 0.30

    0% Dead Zone 0.00

    100% Dead Zone 0.30


    Rudder: Sensitivity 0.30

    0% Dead Zone 0.00

    100% Dead Zone 0.30



    I've flown on these settings for many years and have got used to them but they may not work for you and other people have their own settings which work very well for them. Experiment and have fun!

    Incidently, if you would like to meet up on line for some take offs and landings let me know and we can fix a good time for both of us and choose a nice quiet part of the sim to practice. As DerDa mentions, Team Speak ( a free bit of software that allows us to chat easily) is really 'a must!' It's flying with other people in our Axis v Allies Server (Muliplayer) that seriously speeds up that tough learning curve...beside allowing you to make a hold load of new friends. Hope this helps! Good luck! Salute!
    Last edited by ATAG_Marlow; Jul-27-2020 at 07:01.

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    I've taken off quite a lot now.
    Never attempted to land yet but when taking off I can only do in a hurricane.
    Which is OK for now.
    But I have a massive problem that makes me crash a lot, when taxing and building speed to takeoff my plane always goes to the side and I can never keep it straight I try to use the rudder a bit.
    Ive practiced a lot and can never keep on the runway
    Taloruk

    Google cliffs of dover tutorial on youtube, lots of helpful videos there, you will still have to practice thou, don't lose heart, its a bit of a learning curve, but worth it.
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Learning the basics

    I copied your settings and thats made it a lot easier thanks Marlow.

    Ive not ever landed yet, and would like to fly the spitfire but i can never take off.
    Also i can see ships from really far away but planes i cant see unless i am right on top of them and i normally get shot before i see them.
    Is there anyway i can increase the graphics to spot plans from a far?

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Taylor I believe we chatted a bit yesterday and I asked you to attain a mic so we could converse using teamspeak or via discord. The discord Numbers for the TWC channel are in the briefing and the Atag numbers for teamspeak are on this forum I would be glad to get you started in the best direction for learning this work of art you are flying sir. TWC_Fatal
    i7 2700 ,32 gigs, 4 ssd's ,1 7200rpm 2terabyte,1 samsung 55 display,2 mfd's,EDTRACKER,Warthog ,X55 stick, 7inch liliput monitor in mfd's 21 I-inc secondary display for instruments using virtual cockpit
    [*]iustus facere unus[*] JUST MAKE ONE ( FATAL ERROR) Commander TWC http://twcpilots.com

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    but planes i cant see unless i am right on top of them and i normally get shot before i see them
    After the first couple of months of flying CloD I complained about the same thing and a seasoned veterean told me:
    "Well, all of us had to pass through this deep and dark valley of despair."

    Some manage to race through this valley at top speed, but after six years I still havn't seen the end of it, still the occasional lucky glimpse of light makes it well worth.

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    Re: Learning the basics

    @others: tldr; sorry, if it was already mentioned

    During take-off not only rudder has to be applied but also ailerons opposite the side the plane will roll. For me often full ailerons to the right is required on british single-engined fighters. Elevator trim one nodge down (you can see it in the spit on the right side of the cockpit, just adjust Elevator trim and look for the instrument) helps to get in the air better.

    As a beginner, start in the right direction, which you can see by the yellow markers right of the runway. Raise the throttle slowly at the beginning, use rudder and ailerons as suggested to go straight. If you go stable, pull the throttle to full. Be aware of "humbling" before reaching take of speed (for me around 100 mph), don't try to correct the humbling to much (only pull the stick very slightly) and pull the stick slightly at around 90 mph)

    Starting on an airfield with a concrete runway helps a lot on the beginning.

    My landing procedure on Hurri and Spit:

    - as you are beginner, I would suggest to go into a traffic circuit round the runway in a rectangle in a distance of 1 mile to the airfield, on about 500-1000 feet height. Lower your speed to about 150 mph, when you are in the leg opposite the landing course (downward leg). If you go to fast, you can effectively lower speed by giving ailerons to one side and rudder to the other (-> slipping)
    - go into the base leg (that is the part being in the right angle to the landing course) as the beginning of the runway is on your 7 or 8 o'clock (as you are on a left-traffic-circuit). This helps you to have enough distance to the runway to perform the next steps with a minimum of stress
    - lower your undergear (caution: in the Hurri you have to toggle gear twice to lower - if you use toggling for it, as I do... ) -> check the green control light in cockpit!
    - at 140 mph lower your landingflaps (if you are on suggested speed, speed will lower automaticly by the resistance of the landing gear -> no need the reduce throttle here)
    - at this time you may have to give more throttle to maintain a speed of ~120 mph, but you will also begin to sink to, I'd say, 500 feet if you aren't yet
    - if the runway is on your 10 o'clock, you are ready to turn into the final leg and adjust your plane to the strip. Don't turn to hard, you are quite slow!
    - then reduce throttle and point your sight to the runway threshold
    - try to achieve an approach speed of about 90 to 100 mph by adjusting throttle and setting your sight while approaching. This is by the way a good time to go in full zoom and check the runway (and the rest of the airfield), if there is no traffic on it that may affect your landing
    - as you are on the short final (about 50-100 yards to the runway threshold), reduce throttle to idle and you should reach the runway threshold with a speed of 80-90 mph and you are almost on the hight of the runway, so you can (carefully) pull the stick backwards to go in the "flare". As you move on with now automaticly reducing speed, you will sink to the runway and hopefully touching ground at one piece.
    - after the touchdown your speed will reduce further and after about 2 seconds, you can carefully pull the stick more back to lower your tailwheel to the ground
    - at this time apply the wheelbrakes in "stutter"-mode to prevent setting your plane on the nose or damaging your prop. Use your rudder to stay on the runway until you are slow enough to leave it savely

    If something on your landing procedure is feeling unsave (traffic on runway, coming in way to short or to far, to low or to high, to slow or to fast, having to few runway left to stop savely), then "go around", i.e.: full throttle, raise gear, raise flaps on a speed of let's say around 120mph and climb to go in a new traffic circuit to give it a new try.

    Sorry for my weak english, maybe it helps inspite
    Last edited by FG28_matkenhaus; Jul-27-2020 at 15:53.
    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4344&dateline=1595601  401

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    Novice Pilot TWC_Padre's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    Ive not ever landed yet, and would like to fly the spitfire but i can never take off.
    Hi Taylor. Glad to see you got things straightened away with your game play-ability. This SIM is a fantastic SIM and is well worth investing the time. There is a lot to learn and the process can be frustrating and discouraging, but as the fellas have been stressing it is well worth it!

    The best advise I can give you with taking off in the Spitfire, is the advise that I received from a fellow pilot (of course we worked this out using Team Speak, which as mentioned makes the process so much easier). When you are taking off in the Spitfire, don't give her full throttle from the start. If you do you'll find yourself wildly careening in every direction but the one you want to go. You need need to "ease" the power on: for me I start mt takeoff with a throttle setting between 40% and 50%, while simultaneously using my rudders to control my aircraft trajectory, there comes a point where I "feel" my aircraft is traveling somewhat stable, that is when I "pour on" my throttle to 85%. This gives me the speed I want and lifts the tail section. When I reach approximately 100 mph I ease back on the stick and pull away from the ground. Once I've "felt" her leave the ground I raise my landing gear, and turn my boost on. Once I get the green light that my gear has successfully retracted, I pour on the throttle 110% and begin my climb while simultaneously setting my trim. Last note: learn all you can about trimming your aircraft, there are some fantastic videos that explain trim and it's importance. Ask any pilot; the one thing you will be constantly adjusting when flying is your trim. The pilot who masters trimming his/her aircraft will have great success in this SIM.

    I look forward to seeing you in the virtual skies of Cliffs of Dover Blitz/Tobruk

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Pans's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    I've taken off quite a lot now.
    ...when taxing and building speed to takeoff my plane always goes to the side and I can never keep it straight I try to use the rudder a bit.
    I've just had a quick scan through and apologies if someone else has already said similar, but make sure to feed the throttle in gradually when you start rolling for takeoff and don't be shy with your rudder!

    I've no idea what you're trying to fly, but the Hurricane or Spitfire are definitely the easiest planes to get to grips with as a beginner, (even if you end up wanting to fly Luftwaffe). In both of those types you also shouldn't need more than about 75 or 80% throttle to get airborne. If you just hoof the throttle to max you'll get a terrific amount of induced yaw and most likely end up in a trap of overcorrecting.

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    Supporting Member JackMaXX's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    re spotting, don't use high screen resolution initially, 1920 x 1080 is optimum in my opinion, as you get better at spotting you can raise it if you wish.
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Are there any missions made that i can just practice landing and take off constantly? without waiting for the engines to heat up for take off?
    so would prefer a mission with the plain already coming into land.

    Ill try and get teamspeak sorted today

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    Supporting Member dazza's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    Are there any missions made that i can just practice landing and take off constantly? without waiting for the engines to heat up for take off?
    so would prefer a mission with the plain already coming into land.

    Ill try and get teamspeak sorted today
    For take off / landing practice many refer to the stock 'Cross Country' single mission. It uses the Blenheim but you can substitute any aircraft. It starts on the runway with engine(s) warmed up which saves time.

    ** Just a note to tap the brakes - quite often when spawning in the brakes are applied without any player input. It causes many to nose over repeatedly without knowing why. Give them a quick tap to release them.

    Very glad to see you're up and running. I'd said earlier you'd get plenty of help around here. The great community spirit is what has kept Cliffs alive (with TFS immense efforts of course) despite it's well known flawed history.

    Daz

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    Novice Pilot Little Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    Are there any missions made that i can just practice landing and take off constantly? without waiting for the engines to heat up for take off?
    so would prefer a mission with the plain already coming into land.

    Ill try and get teamspeak sorted today
    I feel your pain, they say this game has a steep learning curve and they are not kidding. Have you tried the missions within the game for practice? I know that none have landings and takeoff programed but you can learn a few things about each simply practicing in the air just like real student pilots do. The first mission is Free Flight it puts you in the air alone. From here you can practice slow flight, decent, stalls, and stall recovery. Next you need to practice spins and spin recover. This will help give you a feel for the aircraft and the use of your controls.

    Have you downloaded Chuck Owl's manual on Cliff's Aircraft? If will give you airspeed for different maneuvers that you need to know for all the A/C.

    I have made new missions for Landings, Takeoff's, and different Combat scenarios using the Full Mission Builder (FMB) which is in Extra's within the game. It was easy, but I also screwed up some of the missions so they don't play anymore so I am not going to go down that rabbit hole with you.

    Spotting is something you will never be satisfied with. But like stated earlier you need to have your resolution within the game set low. Even though I have a 4K monitor I have game res. set at 1680X1050. I use to run it even lower but after a year or more I set it to this res which gives me better graphics and a better view of A/C that are no longer a spot, but a full 2 dimensional object. Setting up your game/your system for spotting is another process that hopefully you will enjoy rather than be frustrated with.

    Welcome to Cliff's and I hope to see you in Multiplayer someday.

    Bill
    Last edited by Little Bill; Jul-28-2020 at 12:16. Reason: Spell Checker gave me the wrong word. One word change.

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by tayloruk View Post
    Are there any missions made that i can just practice landing and take off constantly? without waiting for the engines to heat up for take off?
    so would prefer a mission with the plain already coming into land.

    Ill try and get teamspeak sorted today
    Even if you don't necessarily want to (or feel ready for it yet), playing online is actually a great place to do this. Join the ATAG or DangerDogs server, pick a nice quiet airfield in the rear and just practice spawning , starting and take off / landing circuits. You'll smash a lot of planes (and probably pilots) but the good news is you can just respawn yourself a new one without having to keep exiting and reloading a singleplayer mission.
    Last edited by 9./JG52 Pans; Jul-29-2020 at 11:53. Reason: missed a word

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    Manual Creation Group ATAG_Marlow's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Hi Everyone.......I flew with taylor today for a short while and I have to say he's making a crackin' start! He is flying with a joystick but, as yet, without Track Ir but was flying a Hurricane like a good 'un! Unfortunately, I had to leave quickly because we had visitors so I never saw taylor make any landings but he is now up to speed on Team Speak

    which I'm sure will help enormously.

    Let us know if we can help further, taylor. I know I 'fired' a lot of information in a very short time but next time we won't be so rushed! As you can see from this thread, there is no shortage of help and advice! Good luck and hope to fly with you again soon. Salute!

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    Combat pilot \Hawk/'s Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Welcome tayloruk !

    On the subject of Basics, what's the best way to "do" Loadouts?


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    Supporting Member dazza's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by \Hawk/ View Post
    Welcome tayloruk !

    On the subject of Basics, what's the best way to "do" Loadouts?
    By 'to do' are you asking how to go about creating / saving custom loadouts or asking what is the best loadout to use ?

    Either way firstly make sure Steam Cloud is NOT checked. Otherwise the file that saves your custom loadout (user.ini) will be erased each time you fire up Steam and Cliffs.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GZx...N7PTF85oW/view

    Chucks Guide will give you most what you need to know. It's still essential Cliffs reading even though a few things have changed since it was written.

    So far this doesnt work offline and you need to go online to get these functions (though with 5.0 things may be different).
    Choose the ammunition loadout you want then SAVE it under a new name to ensure its there. The part that does not save is the gun harmonisation values. Those you put in manually.

    Daz
    Last edited by dazza; Jul-28-2020 at 21:59.

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    Manual Creation Group ATAG_Marlow's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post

    Either way firstly make sure Steam Cloud is NOT checked. Otherwise the file that saves your custom loadout (user.ini) will be erased each time you fire up Steam and Cliffs.
    Hi Dazz.....thanks for the above. I'm just wondering if this might be why my info windows never stay as I've set them but always return to default.

    Where do I look to..... 'make sure Steam Cloud is NOT checked.' Is that in 'Options' within game?

    (Grr! I really ought to know this stuff by now)........Cheers! Salute!

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    Re: Learning the basics

    Hi Marlow,
    Start from Steam, right-click on Il-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs Of Dover [Blitz]
    Go to properties > Updates > and un-check the box at the bottom.

    steam cloud.jpg
    Setup 1:
    Lenovo 10NK000TEX | i7 7700K @3.60GHz | 16.0 GB | Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
    T16000M FCS HOTAS | CH_PRO Pedals | TrackIR 5 | TeamSpeak 3.3.2 | TS Notifier 1.6.0h

    Setup 2:
    Gigabyte Z390 UD | i7 9700K @3.60GHz | 16.0 GB | Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti
    TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pro rudder pedals | TrackIR 5 | TeamSpeak 3.3.2 | TS Notifier 1.6.0h

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    Supporting Member dazza's Avatar
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    Re: Learning the basics

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Marlow View Post
    Hi Dazz.....thanks for the above. I'm just wondering if this might be why my info windows never stay as I've set them but always return to default.

    Where do I look to..... 'make sure Steam Cloud is NOT checked.' Is that in 'Options' within game?

    (Grr! I really ought to know this stuff by now)........Cheers! Salute!
    Hiya.
    I only recall this (and many other things) having recently walked a new player through the process of saving loadouts.

    In your case I doubt it's the culprit as this user.ini saves personalised settings for ammo, skin, squadron codes / markings and pilot uniform etc. If Steam Cloud was checked that file would be erased and you'd be using default ammo / skin etc every time you launch. If you have a user.ini file in your folder then Steam Cloud in already unchecked.

    The confUser.ini file has all the window settings. I've no idea why you'd lose those settings. Maybe something to do with 'run as administrator' or just your windows version playing up ? Way beyond my comprehension. I'm often bored and read many threads on 'issues'. Sometimes I find valuable, simple solutions I can pass on or refer back to, but mostly it goes way over my curly head.

    Daz
    Last edited by dazza; Jul-29-2020 at 08:19.

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