Ju 88 C4 Late (maybe others too) need love

[ATAG_SKUD]

Took the c4 late up and I've got to admit I'm liking it more.
1 Nevermind about the props. I deciphered the mapping and with some help from Noofy they work like they should.
2) Engine starter sounds like a 1982 Lada with a rusted muffler. The Jumo had a flywheel to wind up and started just like the 109 albeit powered by an electric motor (or a hand crank). There are videos of the 213 being started (darn near same engine) It winds up and you pull the clutch. It's much more machismo than a 1982 Lada.
3) Flaps seem to have no extra lift, not much drag and don't require any trim changes. Gear down does not change trim from asymmetric drag.
4) I don't think the 88 had an oil rad you can control independently, I can find no trace of a control for it in any of the manuals.
5) You should be able to shove the RPM levers full forward for at least a minute for take off without over revving to destruction. That was the indicated by the start position. I think they limited at 2600.
6) I'm liking the cockpit detail but it's a bit dark hard to make out features.
Sorry to whine but the Ju 88 needs some love-please.

skud

[HenryLuebberstedt]

As a big Ju-88 fan I'm in heaven with Tobruk. Its far more I've ever expected! But here and there a tiny bit of some more love would be wonderful:

Instrument panel seems pretty dark to me, even in the bright north african sun
A second light for the right side of the panel would be nice. Maybe we get some dawn-missions one day.
The Mode-2 autopilot still needs an IAS of 400 km/h for leveling. It should work in any stable flight situation.
Just an observation: An empty A-1 reaches in 4K ALT 390/400 km/h easily. An empty A5-Trop didn't get over 310 km/h?
I love the new sound effects and would love them even more when they are a little bit louder: gear, flaps, bomb bay, bomb release

Just whining at a high level.

[Karaya]

Just an observation: An empty A-1 reaches in 4K ALT 390/400 km/h easily. An empty A5-Trop didn't get over 310 km/h?

Just tried it myself: A-5, no stores, channel map, starting at 5000m, diving to 4000m and waiting for speed to stabilize.
No wind/turbulence, full throttle, 2400rpm, rads 40% open.
Got 375-380kmh IAS out of it which should be 455-460kmh TAS at that altitude.

Also tested the A-5 trop the same way. Getting the exact same speed out of it.

754530_20200811225536_1.jpg

[varrattu]

~V~

Sorry to whine but the Ju 88 needs some love-please.

skud

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Took the c4 late up and I've got to admit I'm liking it more.
1 Nevermind about the props. I deciphered the mapping and with some help from Noofy they work like they should.
2) Engine starter sounds like a 1982 Lada with a rusted muffler. The Jumo had a flywheel to wind up and started just like the 109 albeit powered by an electric motor (or a hand crank). There are videos of the 213 being started (darn near same engine) It winds up and you pull the clutch. It's much more machismo than a 1982 Lada.
3) Flaps seem to have no extra lift, not much drag and don't require any trim changes. Gear down does not change trim from asymmetric drag.
4) I don't think the 88 had an oil rad you can control independently, I can find no trace of a control for it in any of the manuals.
5) You should be able to shove the RPM levers full forward for at least a minute for take off without over revving to destruction. That was the indicated by the start position. I think they limited at 2600.
6) I'm liking the cockpit detail but it's a bit dark hard to make out features.
Sorry to whine but the Ju 88 needs some love-please.

skud

Do you have the pitch in constant speed auto or manual?

The aircraft is normally flown in constant speed mode... manual only used to feather engines.

The limit on use of 2600 rpm and 1.4 ata was 1 minute... in the manual. The engine will last longer than that.... but not much longer.

There is a lot of difference in the lift/drag with flaps down and up.

The oil rad dates from the A-1... as far as I know there was no change from the Jumo 211D to the F. I will look at it again to make sure. This is not the same engine as in the A-4 or C-6. That was the 211J.

Will look at the trim changes.

[ATAG_SKUD]

Thanks Buzz,
I really do enjoy flying this 88 better than BoS. It feels more real. BoX 88 balloons when you drop the flaps. Tobruk almost none. Seems like should be somewhere in the middle. Never flown in an 88 but a Dash 8 will balloon.
I hope you guys take up tidying up the cockpit and give it the same love as the Welly.. And while you are in there can you flip the centigrades arounds on the temp gages! I can find no trace of an oil rad control in the A-1 or A-5 either. Of course it has an oil rad just not controlled separately from cowl flaps.

skudJu88 temp.JPG
BTW I figured out the prop issue. I had both axis and keys mapped... it was going schizoid

Oh and the cockpit lights!

[1lokos]

Don't forget to replace the lamp in "secondary illumination" of Ju 88 cockpit, is burned.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Thanks Buzz,
I really do enjoy flying this 88 better than BoS. It feels more real. BoX 88 balloons when you drop the flaps. Tobruk almost none. Seems like should be somewhere in the middle. Never flown in an 88 but a Dash 8 will balloon.
I hope you guys take up tidying up the cockpit and give it the same love as the Welly.. And while you are in there can you flip the centigrades arounds on the temp gages! I can find no trace of an oil rad control in the A-1 or A-5 either. Of course it has an oil rad just not controlled separately from cowl flaps.

skudJu88 temp.JPG
BTW I figured out the prop issue. I had both axis and keys mapped... it was going schizoid

Oh and the cockpit lights!

Hello Skud

Yes, the change to CoG/Flight Attitude with full flaps is not right... will be changed... will not be in next patch, but one after that.

Re. the oil cooler, I will look through the files again... if it was auto, then just chalk it up to another mistake by the original development team.

I should have learned not to trust their work by now, but sometimes I hope not everything they did was wrong.

[ATAG_SKUD]

Hello Skud

Yes, the change to CoG/Flight Attitude with full flaps is not right... will be changed... will not be in next patch, but one after that.

Re. the oil cooler, I will look through the files again... if it was auto, then just chalk it up to another mistake by the original development team.

I should have learned not to trust their work by now, but sometimes I hope not everything they did was wrong.

Thanks Buzz, No problem waiting.
I don't think the oil rad was ever auto. It was designed to work in concert with the water rad by modulating the cowl flaps. The cowl flaps decide how much airflow both of them get. So neither rads actually have manually controllable liquid flow control only air flow determined by cowl flap position. Mapping a key or axis to control the cowl flap is all we need.

skud
One more request- can you use the 109 start sounds (flywheel winding up the clutch engaging). I am betting both Jumo and DB starter assemblies were supplied by the same vendor. The 213 starting on you tube (FW190 D-13) sounds just like the 109. That would be an easy correction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8 @4:40

late update after reading Noofy's manual

b. Temperatures for returning oil
The gauge is located in the engine cowling.
Temperatures must not be less than 30°C (when using the cold start method) nor more than 105°C.
In cruise approximately 80°C.
Adjustment happens automatically with thermostat.
If the maximal allowable temperatures for cooler fluid and engine oil are exceeded, cowl flaps have
to be opened or engine power reduced.

Another late late edit after reading the flight manual

In t u r n i n g f l i g h t only small deflection of rudder is required. Amount of banking is
determined by the use of turn and bank instrument.
T r i m c h a n g e s when adjusting landing flaps and also when retracting and lowering the
undercarriage cause such a small lateral moment in the entire speed range, that it can be easily
compensated with small elevator response.
W h e n a d j u s t i n g t h e e l e v a t o r trim plane slightly tail heavy.
Difference in the flying attitude on the other hand when landing flaps are closed and on the other
hand when the landing flaps are fully opened and elevator is set in the corresponding position
(landing- and cruise positions), is large. Therefore when gliding special attention has to be paid on
the speed indicator.

[Blitzen]

I wish I could try it out over the Channel against a Sutherland....
( so far not possible, but one can dream can't one?)

[danperin]

I wish I could try it out over the Channel against a Sutherland....
( so far not possible, but one can dream can't one?)

On the next patch, I believe you will be able to fly any plane on any quick mission, mate.

If you really want to try this now you can do this:

Go to \\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz\parts\bob\mission\Quick

Open all ".mis" files and add on the [PARTS] area the "Tobruk part". You will find 'PARTS' right on the top of the .mis file.

[PARTS]
core.100
bob.100
tobruk.100

That way you will be able to select any plane (channel/tobruk) to fly any quick mission (channel/desert).

[Blitzen]

On the next patch, I believe you will be able to fly any plane on any quick mission, mate.

If you really want to try this now you can do this:

Go to \\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz\parts\bob\mission\Quick

Open all ".mis" files and add on the [PARTS] area the "Tobruk part". You will find 'PARTS' right on the top of the .mis file.

[PARTS]
core.100
bob.100
tobruk.100

That way you will be able to select any plane (channel/tobruk) to fly any quick mission (channel/desert).

Wow! Thanks Mate...for giving me the nudge now. I'm looking forward to that patch!

[danperin]

Well, the last patch already made it, mate! 5.2

Just updated Blitz and we can 'officially' do this now.

[Blitzen]

Thanks Danperin- Did as you suggested and it worked like a charm.Now I can get another wish : to fly the beautiful little Bf-108 over the beautiful English countryside...

[danperin]

Thanks Danperin- Did as you suggested and it worked like a charm.Now I can get another wish : to fly the beautiful little Bf-108 over the beautiful English countryside...

[major_setback]

Thanks Danperin- Did as you suggested and it worked like a charm.Now I can get another wish : to fly the beautiful little Bf-108 over the beautiful English countryside...

Yes, there is something very special about the look of this aircraft. It has become a favorite of mine. It has a sleek sporty look.
I can imagine that many private plane owners of modern aircraft will see a similarity between the Bf108 and the planes they themselves fly.

[major_setback]

Actually I think there may be a new addition to the Bf 108 skins - mottled version. I'm not certain, but I don't think it was available in the release version of the game, but came with one of the new game updates.

The same goes for the Bf109F.
These skins are now included:
https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post358875

aaargh!... I need to repaint one of those skins .. the filter is the wrong colour. I just noticed.

[Blitzen]

Actually I think there may be a new addition to the Bf 108 skins - mottled version. I'm not certain, but I don't think it was available in the release version of the game, but came with one of the new game updates.

The same goes for the Bf109F.
These skins are now included:
https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post358875

aaargh!... I need to repaint one of those skins .. the filter is the wrong colour. I just noticed.

I think I know the answer for this , but will ask anyway- any chance of you doing a few Brit or French pre-war civilian skins ala the Tigermoth?

[Blitzen]

Well, the last patch already made it, mate! 5.2

Just updated Blitz and we can 'officially' do this now.

Mark this down to just curious ..This morning I went into the Single missions and added the Tobruk line to each' Miss "file as suggested( it wasn't in any of them.) Was this just a short waste of time as the new patch not only modified QM's but all the Single Missions as well. Now in all of them I can fly any of the new a/c's .So I really jumped the gun by about 5 minutes when the patch came up.My question is if I had waited would all of those 'Tobruk" lines have been automatically added or would the patch have modded this in some other way?
I think this option in the new version is great- it expands the options for choice almost exponentially with so many choices.I do think one that CloD has had over GB is the numerous ways a mission ( any mission) can be played by choices of which airplane can be chosen or switching aircraft or even sides...It really widens game play. Another is the in game map & how it can easily be moved or the ability to widen of shorten the distance shown. GB still doesn't allow that.
I do wait patiently for VR tho....

[ATAG_SKUD]

HEY! Go get a room this is an 88 thread

skud

[Blitzen]

HEY! Go get a room this is an 88 thread

skud

Here ya go...the ball is back in your court...

[ATAG_SKUD]

Here ya go...the ball is back in your court...

Haha
was just razzing you guys
I guess I'll take a spin in the 108 and see what all the adoration is about

[major_setback]

I think I know the answer for this , but will ask anyway- any chance of you doing a few Brit or French pre-war civilian skins ala the Tigermoth?

Put some reference pictures or profiles in the recently created skin suggestion thread. No promises that they will be done though.

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post358558

This goes for anyone else too - regarding skin suggestions I won't go searching for references myself. That would double the amount of work needed.

Please remember that we still all do our TFS work at weekends and after work.
Cheers