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Thread: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

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    TF Leadership RAF74_Buzzsaw's Avatar
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    Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Hello All

    A number of changes will be incorporated in the next patch which should be released next week.

    ---

    Overhead Pilot armor

    The 109E-7's and 109F's had overhead pilot armor installed at the factory.

    Some pilots removed this, leaving the back seat and headrest armor. These were mostly the 'Experten', or Schwarm/Staffel/Gruppe Leaders who had to be able to see around and make decisions. Most Nachwuchs or Average pilots left it.

    We are unable currently to allow the player the option to keep or remove the armor... the code needs a re-write. We were going to leave the armor in place until we did the re-write, but its clear the majority of the players want the armor removed.

    So we are removing from all E-7's and all 109F's. As mentioned, in the future we will re-write the code to allow the player the choice.

    ----

    Auto Radiators on 109F's

    It has become clear the 109F's were significantly down in performance over what they should be.

    The 109F's are the first aircraft in the game with automatic radiators and it looks like the code for this, (left over from the original developers) is not completely accurate.

    The radiators open too soon, before they need to, and stay open longer than they need to. This creates additional drag and affects top speed on the 109F's

    We have adjusted a number of elements on the radiators to reduce the early opening effects.

    This reduces the excess drag effects and brings up the speed to historical levels.

    These changes will not affect the climb rate significantly.

    ---

    109F Propellors

    The 109F props, the VDM 9-11207 for the F-1/F-2 and VDM 9-12010 for the F-4 had their drag a little high, this has been lowered improving the overall Lift/Drag ratio on the props. This has also helped with the speed.

    ---

    Overheat

    The 109F-4's have had their overheat schedule redone... this means they will not overheat as fast, especially at low speed. This will allow the players to use full power longer in a climb.

    ---
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; Aug-09-2020 at 22:21.

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Will pilot kills be more likely with the armor removed?

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    TF Leadership RAF74_Buzzsaw's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSteven View Post
    Will pilot kills be more likely with the armor removed?
    If you are shot at from directly above, yes.

    But most players want it removed because it blocks the view to the rear and players can't see if someone is behind them.

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    Team Fusion VO101_Tom's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSteven View Post
    Will pilot kills be more likely with the armor removed?
    Just to clarify, We didn't removed the full armor plate behind the pilot, only the top, curved part.
    Obviously this change is affect not only the 3D graphic, but how the damage model calculate the armor protection of the pilot too.

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    So we are removing from all E-7's and all 109F's. As mentioned, in the future we will re-write the code to allow the player the choice.
    Thanks. This is a very good solution (in my opinion)!!!

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Jamz Dackel's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Great news and welcomed. ~S~
    https://ibb.co/vqQKb5H

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Thank you for hearing us, this is a good decision, with an armored headrest, nothing was visible and historically many German pilots removed them, this is a fact.
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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Hello All

    A number of changes will be incorporated in the next patch which should be released next week.



    ---
    Whatever about removing armour, it is, in my opinion, far too early to start tweaking the performance of 109s, do you really want a situation where 109 "go up like lifts" as in Blitz?, why not just nerf the entire Red fleet?.
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMaXX View Post
    Whatever about removing armour, it is, in my opinion, far too early to start tweaking the performance of 109s, do you really want a situation where 109 "go up like lifts" as in Blitz?, why not just nerf the entire Red fleet?.
    Lol. Bugs don't matter to you obviously. You do whine a lot, don't you?
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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Well from my limited testing of the new DLC it seems to me that the 109 F is a bit slow compared to Il-2 1946. I don't know about the historical data but I remember that catching the F-4's and F-2's in the good old days of Il2 1946 was rather challenging. I set up quick missions against Hurricanes and Spitfires expecting some easy target practice and had trouble catching them in my 109. So I thought maybe I'm just really rusty after long time away from virtual flying but no when i tried Spit against the 109 it was a massacre. This was against AI of course so maybe things are different on line.

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    The Issue re the armour "hood" on the BF109 is, as I understand it, not a bug as such, but a compromise between historical accuracy and game playability and I have no issues with the proposed changes.

    The point I am trying to make(probably poorly) is that it seems premature to be tweaking one particular aircraft in a game that has been eight months in alpha and beta testing and is only 4 days on general release.
    I am sure that there are many bugs to be corrected as is normal in any new game release.
    Decisions made in haste are usually poor, much better to address all the bugs in a holistic way to preserve the balance of the game.
    To create a situation where one or two aircraft are too far ahead of the rest in terms of performance will be a mistake and will result is most players flying BF 109s or Spittys, Blitz in the desert and the work of the developers in creating all the other aircraft models will be diminished.
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMaXX View Post
    The point I am trying to make(probably poorly) is that it seems premature to be tweaking one particular aircraft in a game that has been eight months in alpha and beta testing and is only 4 days on general release.
    I am sure that there are many bugs to be corrected as is normal in any new game release.
    Decisions made in haste are usually poor, much better to address all the bugs in a holistic way to preserve the balance of the game.
    Actually this head armor was changed now because We needed to make other urgent bugfixes on the 109 anyway, and this saves time and effort from the coder guys if they need to reimport all subversion only once. It was my idea to change it now, not later, because in this way I don't need to working on 3D again, the coders can save one extra reimport on all affected subversion too. Btw the 109 still have issues, you can expect more bugfixes later (hopefully the 3D is finished for now).

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMaXX View Post
    To create a situation where one or two aircraft are too far ahead of the rest in terms of performance will be a mistake and will result is most players flying BF 109s or Spittys, Blitz in the desert and the work of the developers in creating all the other aircraft models will be diminished.
    Yes, yes, it so diminished, that the same patch will bring fix for Martlet, Wellington and P-40 bugs too, but I get it, that is naturally expected, the only problem is, if the German planes get the bugfix, because we could fix even more reds instead. Well... no. Not related. Different 3D artists and coders working on them.
    Last edited by VO101_Tom; Aug-10-2020 at 22:08.

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    Re: Changes to the 109E-7's and 109F's for next patch

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMaXX View Post
    The Issue re the armour "hood" on the BF109 is, as I understand it, not a bug as such, but a compromise between historical accuracy and game playability and I have no issues with the proposed changes.

    The point I am trying to make(probably poorly) is that it seems premature to be tweaking one particular aircraft in a game that has been eight months in alpha and beta testing and is only 4 days on general release.
    I am sure that there are many bugs to be corrected as is normal in any new game release.
    Decisions made in haste are usually poor, much better to address all the bugs in a holistic way to preserve the balance of the game.
    To create a situation where one or two aircraft are too far ahead of the rest in terms of performance will be a mistake and will result is most players flying BF 109s or Spittys, Blitz in the desert and the work of the developers in creating all the other aircraft models will be diminished.
    The aircraft are not reaching their historical speeds.... they need fixing.

    Simple as that.

    I previously altered the Spitfire V overheat when it was noted to be not aligned with the historical aircraft.

    This whole project was finished on a extremely tight schedule, and while every effort was made to keep accuracy high, errors creep in with any game like this.

    When they are discovered, they are fixed.

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