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Thread: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

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    Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    I have been flying this sim with over 7000 hours or more in Cliffs combined and over an obscene number of hours running a server for il2 1946. I new that the German pilots and planes that I went up against were some of the best and squads and love the fights. However, in the links below and the recordings I sent can you please check the data you are using, again I understand that the guys I take on are good. This seems a bit off when one just looks at boost gauge indication.
    These are the sights:

    http://www.spitfireperformance.com/w3134.html

    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...ane/z3564.html

    These are my recordings:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16ie...ew?usp=sharing


    PS I have also flown on different servers and can barely reach any reasonable altitude at correct airspeed indicated or even within a margin of error.

    LAST: I enjoy the game and will keep playing, but if the air data is historically inaccurate then it is not what a simulation is about. The DATA is the key and if you have pictures of the data you used please share your sources.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    I have done the tests and ask for your data, and no response means that watching 109s with bombs climb at an obscene rate is ok- WILL POST TRACK SINCE I RECORD ALL THE TIME NOW!!!! The Allied- RAF Aircraft on your team fusion server fly like CRAP and yet if I go into another server I get better performance out of the plane. So is it server side settings if so gents and if you fly allied forget the Team Fusion Server it is Nerffed! Anyway, Guard your TF base because I will pound it to DUST, because at altitude the II Series is CRAP and the second stage Means NOTHING even with 25% fuel.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    I saw you were running the Hurry with low rpm when the speed trials were using 3000 rpm.
    If you test something, you also need to do the same.

    I also saw your Spit achieving 260 mph IAS at 20.000 ft which is equal to 360 mph TAS.
    If you look at the digital info indicated, it always shows you 260+, means it could also range between 260-269mph which is up to 369 mph TAS
    If you would close your radiator, I'm sure you would also reach higher than 370mph TAS, though to be honest, the Spit is overheating at rpms higher than 2800 so you're unable to hold that speed.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Tib at 3000 rpms still slow!!!

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    I'm doing 246mph at 20000ft, which is exactly the value on your source.
    Close your rads next time.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Quote Originally Posted by BlacKnight View Post
    I have done the tests and ask for your data, and no response means that watching 109s with bombs climb at an obscene rate is ok- WILL POST TRACK SINCE I RECORD ALL THE TIME NOW!!!! The Allied- RAF Aircraft on your team fusion server fly like CRAP and yet if I go into another server I get better performance out of the plane. So is it server side settings if so gents and if you fly allied forget the Team Fusion Server it is Nerffed! Anyway, Guard your TF base because I will pound it to DUST, because at altitude the II Series is CRAP and the second stage Means NOTHING even with 25% fuel.
    That's quite the attitude problem you have there.
    Last edited by Pans; Aug-23-2020 at 15:18.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Hmm, I did a quick speed test with the Spitfire Vb at 20,100 feet per your listed source ( http://www.spitfireperformance.com/w3134.html ) and found my results to be very close to the data published there.

    Aeroplane weight
    lb. T.A.S.
    m.p.h. Height ft. Climb
    ft/min Height
    feet Service
    Ceiling ft.
    W.3134 6525 371 20,100 3250 15,200 37,500
    X.4922 6450 375 20,800 3140 14,400 37,700
    K.9788 6170 369 19,600 3460 14,000 38,000

    In the Full Mission Builder I created a simple mission with a Spitfire Vb spawning in at 20,100 feet (6126 meters), with a starting speed of 300 kmh IAS. The weight of the Spitfire Vb was set at 6,525 lbs (2,958 kg) per the tested weight of Spitfire W.3134.

    My maximum speed attained at 20,100 feet was 243 mph IAS = 375 mph TAS according to the TAS Calculator at http://www.indoavis.co.id/main/tas.html

    My settings were: Throttle at 100% (= +4.2 lbs boost), Prop Pitch set to 76% ( = 2700 rpms), radiator closed to 50%, rudder and elevator trimmed. Engine temps were stable at these settings & speed at Oil = 91, Radiator Coolant = 119.

    I recorded a quick video of this test here:

    I did not have time for more thorough testing (which has been done to exhaustion prior to this sim's release). This quick test just reinforces that the flight models are pretty damned accurate, IMHO.

    Give my best to Fatal and Flug, for me.



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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Due to his petulent childish second post I wasnt gonna post my findings here, but not having flown the spitV yet (I prefer bombers) I had been testing it out after I saw his post. The TAS is very dependent upon site you use (I even tried using Chucks values in his old Clod guide). I tested multiple times on the Dover map as I thought atmosphere conditions would be nearer standard and set ambient temp to 20degC. Even the doc has IAS of 283 to get 370mph TAS. But I didnt think the speed was far off (just depends on how you convert) but I only just got aound 260-270IAS. But everything up to 15kft seems to match the appended speeds - even the climb times.
    This test for 16lb mkV http://www.spitfireperformance.com/aa878.html, gives 360mph IAS at 20k.
    What I did find though that whilst the 2850rpm FTH matches the data in the climb out chart at about 15k and is pretty close at 20k, but the 3000rpm needed to sustain 9lb boost higher doesnt. FTH for 9lb boost in those docs (I know the Vb can boost higher but 16lb FTH is below 12kft) should be circa 20000ft. And its not near to that. I get about 4.8lbs and snappers video is even lower guess cos he is only running 2700rpm. If I remember correctly I had to drop to little over 17000ft to maintain 9lbs. I still expected to see 9lbs around 20k at 3000rpm. So they modelled the speeds pretty good - dunno about the boost.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Everyone should realize there are a multitude of historical tests... and because of manufacturing standards of the time, performance could vary as much as + or - 5%.

    That is why you see differences in the historical tests.

    Please note also, the Tropical models are approx. 10 mph slower in speed... climbs are not much different from Temperate types.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    First off before you comment produce your Track file and show me do not tell me. I believe that it is important that this sim is better then the rest with its accuracy and I chose to fly it. Second, I did the same test at 50% fuel at 20000 and the boost gauge is on, and second stage is on and still only achieving 220 indicated and a reading of about 7lbs on the boost. Buzz I understand that data can be different can you share your references? all I asked is for you to look at the data and confirm the speeds of the planes. I just want it to be right and when I get in a fight I have your best with both sides of the sim.

    Tib: If you are sure then please post your TRACK FILE!

    Track File- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1suq...ew?usp=sharing
    Last edited by BlacKnight; Aug-24-2020 at 21:27.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Hmm, I did a quick speed test with the Spitfire Vb at 20,100 feet per your listed source ( http://www.spitfireperformance.com/w3134.html ) and found my results to be very close to the data published there.

    Aeroplane weight
    lb. T.A.S.
    m.p.h. Height ft. Climb
    ft/min Height
    feet Service
    Ceiling ft.
    W.3134 6525 371 20,100 3250 15,200 37,500
    X.4922 6450 375 20,800 3140 14,400 37,700
    K.9788 6170 369 19,600 3460 14,000 38,000

    In the Full Mission Builder I created a simple mission with a Spitfire Vb spawning in at 20,100 feet (6126 meters), with a starting speed of 300 kmh IAS. The weight of the Spitfire Vb was set at 6,525 lbs (2,958 kg) per the tested weight of Spitfire W.3134.

    My maximum speed attained at 20,100 feet was 243 mph IAS = 375 mph TAS according to the TAS Calculator at http://www.indoavis.co.id/main/tas.html

    My settings were: Throttle at 100% (= +4.2 lbs boost), Prop Pitch set to 76% ( = 2700 rpms), radiator closed to 50%, rudder and elevator trimmed. Engine temps were stable at these settings & speed at Oil = 91, Radiator Coolant = 119.

    I recorded a quick video of this test here:

    I did not have time for more thorough testing (which has been done to exhaustion prior to this sim's release). This quick test just reinforces that the flight models are pretty damned accurate, IMHO.

    Give my best to Fatal and Flug, for me.



    Sry, Snapper try Vb on the British map and achieve these numbers:

    20,000 TAS 370.5 ASI 283.5 -8.5 -4.8 " BOOST READING KEY +9.0 ------- 40 mph is significant do you not think that they could get the speed above this, 243 on the desert map in a trop with filter is probably right. Also this model in the test data is NOT AN HF.
    Last edited by BlacKnight; Aug-24-2020 at 22:09.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Quote Originally Posted by BlacKnight View Post
    First off before you comment produce your Track file and show me do not tell me. I believe that it is important that this sim is better then the rest with its accuracy and I chose to fly it.
    Have you ever heard the expression about catching more flies with honey than vinegar?

    Also, don't be a choosing beggar. You want help or to get second opinions from other people, you have no authority to demand how that is given.

    Learn to play nice with others and people might be more inclined to help you.
    Last edited by Pans; Aug-25-2020 at 06:03.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Pans, sorry do not really know you and the point was to Tib and flown against him many times and would trust him more if he provided a track file just to prove his case. Which I have done no pilot would have a closed rad completely just to get a speed test and possibly damage an engine most were flown at normal or wide open as in the spit tests. So I will be pateint and wait he is a good pilot and looking forward to watching his track.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Sorry but cannot read your material on google drive but some thoughts:

    Have you done the test on correct density altitude depending on QNH and air temperature? I am note sure if the missions on the server work with ISA conditions or not.
    Have you taken PEC (position error) and Comp (guess compressibility effects?)into account (I assume these are not modeled in the sim so ISA in sim might differ to ASI in the RL test tables)?

    Last thing. I do not know Pans either except from getting killed by him but I totally understand what he means and agree with him.

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    I worked with the Hurricane Rotol at altitude and it is about correct and flies ok at 30,000 ft speed is still off. However, the IIA at the same altitude keeps choking with the supercharger stage 2 on and I should be able to top off at: Greatest height reached. 35,900 ft or at least 35,000 without it choking. Data: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...ane/z3564.html
    PLEASE FIX...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16ie...ew?usp=sharing

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    Re: Hurricane II Series Data and Spitfire V

    Here is my Youtube channel with a hurricane II series and hurricane Rotol 100 at 32000 ft. Team please take a look at the clip and let me know the issue with the supercharger at altitude and if this is in the works to be fixed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF8hc-DKn5E

    Sorry about the lighting will run again with cockpit lights on and zoom into gauges.
    Last edited by BlacKnight; Oct-11-2020 at 10:15.

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