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Thread: basics of a wellington ??

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    basics of a wellington ??

    I have flown the Ju 88 for a while and turned into a German now I am looking to fly the new Wellington and dont have a good feel for it , miles per hour, setting up the compass ,cockpit layout, oh gad very different to me . here is a simplified run thru of what I am trying so far
    I know there will be different methods for different folks but here is what I am doing Let me know of better suggestions thanks . I set my throttle to 5% start up ,get both engines going wait till it warms up to maybe 27 Deg put props to 100% add full throttle and wait a bit for more warming . as I wait I set compass lines parallel to the north line and set DG to match any offset
    I add flaps Its hard to tell how much I am putting on then a little elevator trim to nose up, a lot of that really . then I roll slowly to take off i slowly and gently rotate up much less than the 88 I think . now I am flying but I am pretty slow maybe 110 MPH i set props to maybe 65 % throttle is not full maybe 70-80 % but i collect myself make sure flaps are up& gear , set up bombs and look at my heading but I feel like I am not getting much out of the plane if I set up my course and mode 22 auto pilot I can get maybe 150 mph or 160 . I throttle up to 100% set my props around 60 % close rads a bit and I am ok but I think a little slow . I have not done any changes to the mixture and I trim it out to a flat running state . My navigation is weak because its not as user friendly to me as the blue aircraft . question wise I dont seem to be able to go to side gunner stations just front or rear , I am having questions about the bomb sight also I set my number of bombs to drop but i guess there is no equivalent to the bomb spacing on the blues just pick a total number and spacing is fixed ? . the bombs are bigger I think but not so many maybe a dozen not sure . with the lofte I look in and see a sight picture here I dont know yet , do I have to turn it on ? I am using all the Lofte key bindings so maybe something is not laid out yet . I will probably need to jump into a bomber position on a red plane to try more things. i open that little dimmer control and see a clear mirror but no reticle or anything like that . I have not tried a high altitude run yet stll learning to fly the plane better maybe it turns on after stabilizing like the lofte . I understand the concepts of the sight but not familiar with the nuts and bolts of it very well , Has anyone tried it at altitude yet how are you doing ships ?? skip bombing or some altitude bombing I am skip bombing with the 88 but casualties are high on well armed ships . well If you have any thoughts on this discussion fire away . I have not even tried torpedo's yet you would think they would be great for ships but reading about Midway that may not be the case dive bombing prevailed there . so how are the rest of you bombers doing in the wellington?

    TGIF

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Well, you can do it right (as it is explained in the flashcard) or you can do it the easy way:

    Turn on fuel cocks, prop pitch 100%, radiator 100%, start engines, wait for 2 minutes, take off.
    Cruise with 80% pitch, 80 % throttle and 100% rads.

    Works perfectly fine, nothing else needed.


    For navigation the Tobruk map is simple: blue = north, yellow = south.
    If you want to find a distant target, look at the map first, then follow the roads.

    Always attack low level, this saves you a lot of time for climbing and learning the bombsight and very often also the time for flying all the way back

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Well, you can do it right (as it is explained in the flashcard) or you can do it the easy way:

    Turn on fuel cocks, prop pitch 100%, radiator 100%, start engines, wait for 2 minutes, take off.
    Cruise with 80% pitch, 80 % throttle and 100% rads.

    Works perfectly fine, nothing else needed.


    For navigation the Tobruk map is simple: blue = north, yellow = south.
    If you want to find a distant target, look at the map first, then follow the roads.

    Always attack low level, this saves you a lot of time for climbing and learning the bombsight and very often also the time for flying all the way back
    Now this is the style of a true multiplayer CloD flier. Fastest way to the target, bomb, crash, repeat.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Flare View Post
    Now this is the style of a true multiplayer CloD flier. Fastest way to the target, bomb, crash, repeat.
    Actually, I love to come back to base and always try my best to do so.
    Voluntarily crashing or bailing out without need I consider (for myself) as cheating .

    I just wanted to demonstrate the 'easy way'.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by tgif View Post
    , I am having questions about the bomb sight also I set my number of bombs to drop but i guess there is no equivalent to the bomb spacing on the blues just pick a total number and spacing is fixed ? . the bombs are bigger I think but not so many maybe a dozen not sure . with the lofte I look in and see a sight picture here I dont know yet , do I have to turn it on ? I am using all the Lofte key bindings so maybe something is not laid out yet . I will probably need to jump into a bomber position on a red plane to try more things. i open that little dimmer control and see a clear mirror but no reticle or anything like that . I have not tried a high altitude run yet stll learning to fly the plane better maybe it turns on after stabilizing like the lofte . I understand the concepts of the sight but not familiar with the nuts and bolts of it very well , Has anyone tried it at altitude yet how are you doing ships ?? skip bombing or some altitude bombing I am skip bombing with the 88 but casualties are high on well armed ships . well If you have any thoughts on this discussion fire away . I have not even tried torpedo's yet you would think they would be great for ships but reading about Midway that may not be the case dive bombing prevailed there . so how are the rest of you bombers doing in the wellington?

    TGIF
    I climb at 130 mph mainly watching my #2 cylinder head temps (under 240). 25% fuel.

    Bombsight: I usually take the 18 250lb and just put on the salvo drop (airfield attacks) still a long spread. Open the dimmer and turn on sight illumination for the crosshairs. Bombsight enters the airspeed and altitude automatically. You can enter wind and height above sea level but doing fine with no worrying about those. I always take over the nose gunner so it is facing straight ahead to help find the targets only entering the bombardier when I am close to dropping.

    Usually bombing from 15k + (airfield attacks mainly so far)

    Not able to get into the side gunners, only front and tail atm.
    Last edited by Torric270; Sep-13-2020 at 19:28.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    This is all great stuff for me thanks turn on cross hairs whoda thunk that !!!! and it enter speed and alt automatically very nice and sounds like the speeds I am seeing are about right also good you have no Idea how this all helped me thanks again all

    tgif

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Actually, I love to come back to base and always try my best to do so.
    Voluntarily crashing or bailing out without need I consider (for myself) as cheating .

    I just wanted to demonstrate the 'easy way'.
    Yeah, I always prefer to land back at base as well. But you can't deny that a map can be rolled in half the time if bomber pilots forget about the return journey!

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Hey guys. I was flying a bombing mission on the Tobruk server a couple of nights ago, when suddenly one of my escort planes crashed into me and ended my mission, along with my career! I was flying a Wellington MkIc/Trop Late; as escort I had 2 Wellingtons and 1 Beaufighter. It was one of the Wellingtons that collided with me. The kicker is, I could have saved my career if only I could have ejected, but the standard procedure for ejecting failed to function.

    Does anyone know how to successfully eject from a Wellington?

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Padre View Post
    Hey guys. I was flying a bombing mission on the Tobruk server a couple of nights ago, when suddenly one of my escort planes crashed into me and ended my mission, along with my career! I was flying a Wellington MkIc/Trop Late; as escort I had 2 Wellingtons and 1 Beaufighter. It was one of the Wellingtons that collided with me. The kicker is, I could have saved my career if only I could have ejected, but the standard procedure for ejecting failed to function.

    Does anyone know how to successfully eject from a Wellington?
    Jettison canopy/hatch/door twice (will say hatch jettison off/on) you will it hear it on 2nd time, then bail out. You will fall thru the bottom of the plane.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Torric270 View Post
    Jettison canopy/hatch/door twice (will say hatch jettison off/on) you will it hear it on 2nd time, then bail out. You will fall thru the bottom of the plane.
    Excellent! Worked like a charm

    I had been trying to "open the canopy" like you do for the Blenheim, Beaufighter, Spitfire, Hurricane etc., then ejecting.

    Thanks mate
    Last edited by TWC_Padre; Oct-25-2020 at 11:15.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    If you're flying the Wellington (or Blenheim), here's my tip for navigating when doing low altitude attacks.

    The cruise speed for the Wellington is about 180 mph, you can divide this by 60 to get 3 miles per minute. (The Blenheim is a little faster, if you have a calculator handy you can calculate the miles per minute, but at 200 mph it is 3.333 miles per minute.)

    Measure your path on the map using the utterly fantastic tools that they have there, it will give the distance in miles, just divide this by 3 to get how many minutes you have to fly on that path. You will find that over the relatively short distances, especially in Tobruk map that you can navigate purely on time, until you get close to your target.

    I recommend at least two legs to your target, not a straight line as the enemy are more likely to sit over that direct path. If you use the timed method of navigation you can avoid the direct flightpath, and if you get used to it (and use a calculator for best results) you can even have your middle waypoint in barren desert. It is easier if you can use a road junction, or even road that you know you will cross of course.

    The Blenheim with its heigher speed requires a bit more thought, but I keep a calculator to hand to divide my distances by 3.3333. The thing I've found is that on the Tobruk map for the closest targets the margin of error using 3 instead of 3.33 is only a couple of minutes and it is at that point that I am usually climbing a little to spot the target for sure.

    80 miles / 3 = 26 minutes 40 seconds
    80 miles / 3.333 = 24 minutes

    If you have a dogleg path you're then just talking maybe a minute error on each leg, if you have a ground landmark to accurately recognise your mid waypoint you're really only looking at 60 seconds of misalginment at the target. I don't like inaccuracy hence I have a calculator to hand, but I really do find it harder to keep my heading than any adverse influence in errors in timing using a simple estimated 3 miles per min.

    The short version of what I'm saying is just use 3 miles a minute, and at least that way you have a good expectation of when to really start looking for your landmark. Even if you are flying just by roads and towns, coastal curves etc. it saves on your eyes, knowing when to really start scanning for that road, river mouth etc. The biggest iritation is the blenheim doesn't have a clock?! so either use reallife time, or, add the flags to where you estimate you are on the map tools (again brilliant) as they indicate the in game time. You can add these whenever you fly over a key landmark too.

    I fly with music on, often early 20th century Jazz and blues, and navigating to a target and back just using time is sooo satisfying and sometimes nicely relaxing apart form the rush you get when you succesfully get to target just a mile off or so

    I just wish the flak wouldn't tear me a new one each time.
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
    The Blenheim with its heigher speed requires a bit more thought, but I keep a calculator to hand to divide my distances by 3.3333. The thing I've found is that on the Tobruk map for the closest targets the margin of error using 3 instead of 3.33 is only a couple of minutes and it is at that point that I am usually climbing a little to spot the target for sure.

    80 miles / 3 = 26 minutes 40 seconds
    80 miles / 3.333 = 24 minutes
    Dividing by 3.333 is like multiplying by 3 and dividing by 10. No need for a calculator...

    In your example: 80/3.333 = 80*3/10 = 240/10 = 24

    Other quick examples:
    100 miles = 30 minutes (100*3/10=300/10=30)
    70 miles = 21 minutes (70*3/10=210/10=21)
    etc.

    Even easier if you divide by 10 first. So your time to target is 1/10th of your distance times 3...
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Oct-25-2020 at 11:12.
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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Dividing by 3.333 is like multiplying by 3 and dividing by 10. No need for a calculator...
    Very useful to know thanks!



    A calculator is still useful if I'm doing the calculation starting from whatever speed I'm doing, but like I said in my post the error is small I might as well just do 180 or 200 mph in my head, whichever is closest!
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
    Very useful to know thanks!



    A calculator is still useful if I'm doing the calculation starting from whatever speed I'm doing, but like I said in my post the error is small I might as well just do 180 or 200 mph in my head, whichever is closest!
    There were no calculators in WWII... You may want to use a slide rule instead

    http://www.bikerman.co.uk/images/sli...tor/index.html
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Oct-25-2020 at 14:08.
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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Yeah I just roleplay and call it my navigator.
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    The flashcards show a 'ship speed aiming guide' but I don't see this, how do I activate that please?
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
    The flashcards show a 'ship speed aiming guide' but I don't see this, how do I activate that please?
    Hi Yo-Yo,

    That screen grab showing the aiming guide (called the aiming 'rake' i believe colloquially at the time - it was a variant of the fleet air arm's which you can see on Swordfish and Albacore aircraft if you go looking for it in pictures and a couple of books) was done during beta. Later on before release the decision was made to remove it as the -111 aiming apparatus wasnt ready and to ensure balance it was removed. I didnt get around to doing another screen grab with the fence removed before it was released so that is why you are still seeing it. I believe there was / is a plan to reintroduce it but I'm not sure what the status of that is.

    Aiming the wellington at historically accurate ranges ~ 1000m is still achievable using that flashcard graphic without the rake being there noting its pretty agricultural (like in real life apparently) and is a combination of skill, guestimation and luck.

    Ezzie

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Ah ok cool. Good to know I'm not losing the plot!
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    I have been getting to grips with the Wellington Mk 1A and 1C and found this online TAS Calculator. It may be of use to anyone interested. Will experiment more in coming weeks.

    https://www.dauntless-soft.com/produ...eedCalculator/

    So far, from around 10,000 to 12,000 feet as a starting point, I'm getting the bombs close to the target.

    One thing I have noticed is that I lose some height in the minute or so it takes the plane to stabilise once I've entered 'Mode 22'. I now climbing a bit above my intended bombing altitude before engaging 'Mode 22'.
    Also, I am not sure how to calculate for wind in the Mk 1A and 1C as there seems to be no provision on the bombsight. Any assistance re this appreciated.

    Did a test run on the Tobruk map attacking Gazala #1 over the weekend accompanied by Slot in another Wellington and Marlow escorting in a Hurricane. We got bombs onto the airfield a hundred metres or so from the targeted hanger. Was attacked by a 109 and Macchi C-202 (both piloted by online players) on the return to Tobruk, but the Wellington gunners managed to fend off the 109 while Malow took care of the Macchi. Thanks mate! I've put you in for a gong!

    Would be great to set up a manned flight of Wellingtons with escort on one of the servers at some time.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbadeluxe View Post
    One thing I have noticed is that I lose some height in the minute or so it takes the plane to stabilise once I've entered 'Mode 22'. I now climbing a bit above my intended bombing altitude before engaging 'Mode 22'.
    Also, I am not sure how to calculate for wind in the Mk 1A and 1C as there seems to be no provision on the bombsight. Any assistance re this appreciated.
    You should be flying in Mode 22 for 2 -3 minutes before you reach your target. That gives you time to line up very precisely on the target.

    Wind strength and direction are set on the bombsight as described in the flashcards. Look for Wellington - 5 in the upper right of that page.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbadeluxe View Post
    I have been getting to grips with the Wellington Mk 1A and 1C and found this online TAS Calculator. It may be of use to anyone interested. Will experiment more in coming weeks.

    https://www.dauntless-soft.com/produ...eedCalculator/
    You need the external temperature to use such tool... plus the tool in your link seems bugged.
    This one is more correct: https://e6bx.com/tas/

    I use a quick and dirty method which gives me close enough approximations for TAS:
    - I add 2% to my IAS per 1000 ft of altitude
    - I add 3% to my IAS per 500 m of altitude

    For example
    - at 12’000 ft I would add 12x2=24%, so if my IAS is 200 mph, my TAS = 200x1.24=248 mph (approx)
    - at 3’500 m I would add 7x3=21%, so if my IAS is 300 km/h, my TAS = 300x1.21=363 km/h (approx)

    These approximations are close enough to give good aiming for bombing
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Dec-14-2020 at 22:57.
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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Thanks Noofy. Much appreciated. Will check it out.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    You should be flying in Mode 22 for 2 -3 minutes before you reach your target. That gives you time to line up very precisely on the target.

    Wind strength and direction are set on the bombsight as described in the flashcards. Look for Wellington - 5 in the upper right of that page.
    Thanks Oskar. Must have missed it on the card. Will work though a few more missions through the week and see if the results improve.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbadeluxe View Post
    Thanks Oskar. Must have missed it on the card. Will work though a few more missions through the week and see if the results improve.
    Ive been bombing in the Welly of late and enjoying it. I plan my run to be on mode 22 for 5-10+ mins from the initial point and pretty much spend most of the time in the nose turret finding the tgt and doing minor course corrections before jumping into the bombsight for the last minute or 2.

    Ezzie

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    I fly a bomber Coffee Hop every morning on TWC England 41 Campaign Server. Call in bombers escort- <cover 15 do this three times call in <cover 22 for 2 spits cover escort (going to try and get Fatal to change these to at least MKIIb (CANNONS). My settings are as follows rad open 100% take off full pitch and throttle. When airborne change to stage 2 super charger, drop throttle to 4 lbs and pitch to 2370 rpms. Spiral climb over base to 4000ft. set <cdist 100 to keep a tight spread just in case I get jumped. If you fly slower bomber stay with you. Head out in the direction checking the situation map. Last as I get close to 10000 ft and then back down to about 3 pounds boost on throttle; finish climb 17000ft (This is in a c late), Drop flaps to counter nose dive, set directional gyro to 0 lock in mode 22, make adjustments with more throttle to keep plane in formation and not passing me. Then use directional gyro to fly the course I set up. once I can see the coast in the front gunner position. I use the keys left and rt to center the turret I use this position to line up and visible target and path on the ground I am following river or road or particular fields. Once in the bombers seat set alt of target (still curious as to presetting the alt at airfield prior to take-off since the computer is in-itself is an altimeter calculating from the base ft. you are at) last set to salvo and drop on hardened targets. Since I understand series now I may start flying with the 500lb load out and not the 2000lb load.

    Anyway just my set up and all are welcome to join me at 6:00am eastern standard time for a Coffee Hop before I go to work...
    Last edited by BlacKnight; Jan-26-2021 at 09:46.

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    One thing I forgot to mention, watch rt engine temperature starting at 10000 ft to 14000ft. thats why I back throttle from 4 to 3 lbs. Once Past 14000 you can tweak it back up to keep formation together...

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    Re: basics of a wellington ??

    Once in the bombers seat set alt of target (still curious as to presetting the alt at airfield prior to take-off since the computer is in-itself is an altimeter calculating from the base ft. you are at)

    Dont quite understand what you mean here. The bomb sight computer altimeter has a QNH (or is it QNE for sea level pressure) setting alongside the target height setting dial like on cockpit altimeter. If you actually look close at the target set dial it is just visible. (Either that or noofy posted an RAF training video which shows it all being setup). That control though is not shown in game - guess it just sets same as pilot altimeter. I assume the bomb aimer will check with the jockey that both altimeters read the same on the field prior to take off. Then set target altitude ASL.
    When you set the target altitude wont matter - provided you do it early enough before dropping for the analogue computer to adjust to it. It has to work that way for the computation to know how high the plane is above target when you drop - which without a radar altimeter or a radar/laser ranger or TERPROM matched to GPS is otherwise pretty much impossible.
    Whether this procedure works correctly in game is something else ie if you drop on a target accurately from 12kft onto a target thats 1500ft ASL with target altitude programmed still at sea level then the game is calculating wrong - you should be about 700yds short at 150mph. (I am pretty sure something is in error, because it seems to be far more accurate using IAS rather than TAS in a blennie or wellie using the earlier sight, but using TAS I am always short. Not sure that this was always the case).

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