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Thread: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

  1. #1
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    Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Hello all,

    My name is Jay and I used to play IL-2 a lot back in the day and was a member of an online squad. In essence, I have a new rig and have an urge to get back into it. My questions are:

    1. I had rudder pedals, a Saitek throttle and a trusty MSFF2 stick as I enjoyed the rumble (now all mysteriously vanished); however, I know that the novelty has worn off for many manufacturers. Now, cost is not really an issue but what do you recommend in terms of a stick, pedals and throttle?
    2. Star Wars: Squadrons will not be compatible with Track IR and only VR. What do you recommend or is it best sticking to the former.
    3. What First and Second World War flight sims do you recommend as well as multi-player? It is a bit of a minefield!

    Appreciated!

    With very best wishes,

    Jay

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    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Happy to jump into this minefiled and bounce around a bit.

    The answer to no. 3 is Cliffs of Dover Blitz + Desert War Tobruk.
    Reasons:
    Without any doubt the best damage models around, best flight models, very good graphics, very good sounds, very realistic 'feeling' of aircraft, enormous choice between different aircraft and variations, lots of single player content (constantly expanded for free!), perfect balance between playability and realism, relatively new game engine ('newer' games are based on older engines) and the only one capable of 100+ people online.
    And the very best, friendly and helpful online community that you can imagine.
    All in all, by far the best value/price relation (the community is priceless).

    Question 1: I think your peripherals are still perfectly suited to blow us all out off the skies (or try at least).

    Question 2: VR is not yet supported by Cliffs (most probably it will be soon), so all of the online squads use Track IR or similar devices.

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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JaySlater View Post
    Now, cost is not really an issue but what do you recommend in terms of a stick, pedals and throttle?
    Since "money is not problem".

    VKB or VirPil joystick bases and grips (you can use Thrustmaster F-16, F-18 grips in both bases, Thrustmaster sell grips only).
    Thrustmaster "magnetic" base are outdated with plastic gimbal, surpassed by VKB and VirPil bases, that have all metal, bearings CAM system with profiles and springs options.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmAwMtniWk



    For Rudder pedals the "high end" models are:
    MFG Crossswind
    VirPil ACE (2 models, plus a helicopter - Mi-8, version)
    Thustmaster TPR
    Slaw Viper.

    VKB T-Rudder is more affordable, and probable is the more easy to use, allow the more precise control - just toe pressure, but don't look like a aircraft rudder pedals, neither has brakes.

    Throttle basically two options:
    Thurstmaster Warthog throttle - can buy standalone, but is very A-10 specific.
    VirPil T50CM2 throttle, that is more versatile than Warthog throttle. Looks like that this model will came in new revision soon, with "afterburner" detent.

    A full kit with this "high end" parts hit $ 1000+ easy.

    VKB and virpil are offering new "button box" modules too.
    Example
    Last edited by 1lokos; Sep-18-2020 at 09:33.

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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Many thanks, guys. I did look at Cliffs of Dover only recently and as I enjoy the Hurricane, this is attractive to me. May I ask as to what the online squads are like? I used to be an active member of the CPS (Casual Pilots Squadron) before the Il-2 leaked patches killed the sim for many (or something like that).

    Good days, though, and remember it fondly.

    Many thanks for your help.

    Is there any FF joystick in development and does the MSFF2 work with the above.

    With very best wishes,

    Jay

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    Ace 1lokos's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JaySlater View Post
    Is there any FF joystick in development and does the MSFF2 work with the above.
    No, FFB joystick market has an attempt of revival circa 2010 with Logitech G-940, but manufacturing shortcomings, profit greed, killed this product on market.

    So, MS FFB2 USB still the best FFB joystick that you can have, and work OK (with some hiccups) in IL-2:CloD, IL-2:GB, DCS World.

    CloD BLITZ cost only ~$25, so you can give a look for decide if you buy Tobruk DLC - what require BLITZ installed.

    But, for VR and casual gameplay, IL-2 GB modules is the answer, has the better VR implementation in "flight sim games" and their SP contend is oriented more for casual players.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Sep-18-2020 at 09:34.

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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JaySlater View Post
    Many thanks, guys. I did look at Cliffs of Dover only recently and as I enjoy the Hurricane, this is attractive to me. May I ask as to what the online squads are like? I used to be an active member of the CPS (Casual Pilots Squadron) before the Il-2 leaked patches killed the sim for many (or something like that).

    Is there any FF joystick in development and does the MSFF2 work with the above.

    Jay
    Hi Jay...welcome to the ATAG Forum. DerDa has given you a brilliant answer above and I agree with all he says. He is definitely NOT exaggerating........ but if I an add my two penny worth:

    I am using a Microsoft Force Feedback II stick, with Blitz and Desert Wings-Tobruk and have had absolutely no problems. Everything seems to work as it should do. I also use Track Ir5 and I certainly wouldn't be without it. I also have bought a set of MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals last Christmas (Santa was very kind!!!) and they are great...accurate.....solidly made......reliable!

    There are a lot of on-line squads making up our Community but we all get on well together and everybody knows everybody else. If nobody from your squad happens to be 'on' when you fly, you will always find somebody else to 'wing up' with. We are all of the same mindset and that's what makes Cliffs of Dover such an enjoyable place to fly and have fun.

    Good luck with getting back into it. There are umpteen new Hurricane variants to get stuck into...and most are now armed to the upper teeth with cannon so.....enjoy! Hope to see you in the skies! Salute!

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    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    If you want the "Rumble", consider the "Buttkicker Gamer 2" accessory. It takes the bass sounds from the game and coverts it through a transducer to the pedestal of your office chair. Gives a nice "Engine running, gunfire, stall shudder, etc." vibration/feel to your seat. Requires some tweaking, but I really enjoy mine and recommend it.

    https://thebuttkicker.com/gamer2_c_2019
    Last edited by Baffin; Sep-18-2020 at 13:41. Reason: URL Added
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    ATAG Member ATAG_Flare's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    In terms of what flight sim to go for, there are basically 3 WWII options:

    Trying to be as unbiased as I can here:

    1. Cliffs of Dover Blitz - well, on this forum, it's our favourite! It's got best-in-class system damage modelling, pretty advanced engine system modelling, a large variety of planes, clickable cockpits, pretty good visuals, and a powerful engine allowing for some crazy amounts of ships, ground units, AI planes (you can easily do 100 bomber raids for example), flak, etc. Can handle huge amounts of people in MP servers as well. It's relatively cheap, 25$ for Blitz and then 60$ for Tobruk which is well worth it for the amount of content included. However the playerbase is rather small all things considered. Usually only 1-2 servers populated. Cons are the playerbase, no VR support if that is what you're interested in (although the devs say early next year for that to arrive), the interface can be rather confusing, and there are plently of odd quirks in the game that take some learning.

    2. IL2 Great Battles (Battle of _____) - this is the "new" IL2, based on the Rise of Flight engine. It gets a lot of active development, and has by far the highest playerbase. The graphics are fantastic, it has a really good singleplayer career mode too. However it's pretty much only a fighter sim. It can't handle huge bomber formations and there are not a ton of flyable bombers, just the Peshka, A-20, 111 and 88. The engine system modelling is quite simple and has a "timer" system for how long you can use combat power, emergency power, etc, which many find quite silly. The damage modelling is superiour in terms of structural damage but much simpler systems damage. It is also pricey at ~50-90$ per "Battle" of which there are 4 already - but you can buy whichever you like and they are all cross-compatible with each other and you don't need to own a map to fly it in multiplayer which is really nice. Slick UI, easy to use, and has good VR support.

    3. DCS - There are 6 WWII planes in DCS, all fighters. The systems and graphical fidelity is INSANE - absolutely top class, as are the flight models. DCS realism is really something else. However there are only fighters and a few AI bombers, and the maps are small, one of Normandy and one of the upper English Channel. It's also the most expensive by far at 50-60$ PER PLANE or map. The damage modelling is also the worst by far, although hopefully they will finally release the updated DM which has been under construction for years now. It's apparently made by the Cliffs of Dover DM programmers so it should be quite good when it's finally out. VR is also supported. The playerbase for DCS WWII is as small or even smaller than Cliffs of Dover. However if maximum realism is your cup of tea then DCS is a good bet. I would suggest trying the free demo of it, you can fly the TF-51 which is an unarmed P51 in the Caucasus map. If you like the graphics and the feeling of flight and systems modelling then buying one plane, the map, and the WWII assets could be worth it - but that will set you back at least as much as buying all of CloD and Tobruk which has dozens of planes and 2 much bigger maps.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    .
    the very best, friendly and helpful online community that you can imagine.
    hmm.

    I'm a bit of a tool though...
    so...


    DerDa has mislead you


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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Seriously though

    I fly Cliffs, MS flight simulator. I have BO(etc). Flying Circus is the only one I play much. I also have DCS but only use it for rotary flight. I think it's the only sim that does that. And it does it very very well.


    My main draw though is the guys I fly with.

    So I'm, super biased towards Cliffs.

    Peripheral wise...? "run what you brung"


    I started with crappy stuff... and upgraded as my enjoyment grew.

    You don't need high end kit.

    It's definitely nice to have, but the cheap stuff does the same. So definitely don't chuck money at it unless it becomes a passion.




    and...

    WELCOME !!


    'Seas
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Sep-22-2020 at 17:55.

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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Flare View Post
    The systems and graphical fidelity is INSANE - absolutely top class, as are the flight models.
    Graphics and internal systems modelling in DCS are definitely the best out of the three flight sims you mention. On the other hand you have to keep in mind that the damage modelling is the worst out of the three and nowhere near as good as either IL-2 CloD or GB. DCS is first and foremost a jet combat sim and it shows in the damage models. Aircraft seem to be either "flying" or "a shower of debris".

    Also flight models: Some people seem to think very highly of them. I personally think they are absolutely horrible as far as the warbirds are concerned. Aircraft feel incredibly floaty and seeing them take off and land is like watching a bunch of oversize RC models. In the Bf109K-4 for example you will go directly from rolling on 3 wheels to airborne. The tail never comes down (unless you force it to) and the aircraft sort of jumps into the air. Also try to stall/spin for example a Spitfire Mk.IX with full bomb load. Nothing will happen, the aircraft just sort of drops but with no tendency to spin at all. You can pull and sustain angles of attack that are reminiscent of modern jet fighters.

    If you want something like "MSFS but with guns" just to fly around in fully modelled warbirds then DCS might be your thing. If you want a proper WWII combat sim then stay away from this and go for IL-2 CloD or GB.

    If you want to see some of them floaty take offs - watch this video and jump to the 2:30 and 4:30 marks.
    Last edited by Karaya; Sep-23-2020 at 03:26.

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    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Getting back into flight sims and help with new equipment

    Welcome Back!
    Windows 11 Pro, ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero, 2 TB Samsung M.2 SSD 990PRO. Intel Core i9 14900KF using TPUII BIOS feature. Air Cooling with Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE CPU Cooler w/ 2 fans. Crucial 96GB DDR 5 RAM at 5600 MT/s. LG 55" 4K OLEDC7P TV, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio 24G. Realtek High Definition Audio, Sony Surround amp w/ optical cable for 5.1 speakers, Ear Buds from Motherboard for Discord/TeamSpeak3. TrackIR5, Buttkicker Gamer 2, Thrustmaster Warthog, 2x Saitek X-52 (Buttons & Gear), Gear-Falcon Trim Box, Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals. Voice Activated Controls.

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