My poll on old wind noise

[von Graf]

In a perfect simulation, every plane had its own set of wind noises, of course

[ATAG_Highseas]

I have a question , this poll is what ? an official poll where at the end it will be actioned on the result,
or just a poll to see how many people agree to the original posters dislike of the new sound but nothing will come of it.
Inquiring minds wish to know

Hals und beinbruch

I believe it started as conversation piece.

I assume it still is. But that could change....

I haven't voted as I barely have time to do up my flies at present, let alone fly...

[ATAG_Snapper]

I have a question , this poll is what ? an official poll where at the end it will be actioned on the result,
or just a poll to see how many people agree to the original posters dislike of the new sound but nothing will come of it.
Inquiring minds wish to know

Hals und beinbruch

Unofficial poll. I simply added it to get a better quantitative idea of for/against greater wind noise. The Bug Tracker is where issues/features should be posted if action is wanted. The poll there for each issue/feature is the one that would count.

[ATAG_JackMaxx]

No real need for coding here, if you want extra wind, eat a couple of tins of baked beans before flying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIP9KXdmO0

[Catseye]

I make old wind noise and it can be very embarrassing indeed!

[Patricks]

Funny, I didn't see this here so I posted on the IL-2 CLoD Forum here. With my (lack of) hearing it's to the point where I can't fly without starting to get a headache after a bit, end up pulling the headset off most of the way but then of course all other sounds are muted too. They either need to rework the sounds or at the very least offer a cockpit volume control before I try it out more. IL-2 Box, no problem at all.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Hi All,

Thanks for your comments and for resurfacing this thread as I'd either never seen it or forgotten about it. I have quite a few sections to get down before I reach this point.

Snappers comment was right. The current wind sound is the original sound and the heavy wind sound was added at a time when we didn't have access to the game files like we do now and it was an attempt to cancel out the fact that red pilots were flying around with the canopy open in order to gain an advantage using the "sound radar" which the blues couldn't use without ejecting the canopy. It was also at a time when the Merlin's engine sound was much weaker than the DB601.

In TF5.0 we had a sound engine change, which for as many improvements and possibilities it brought to the sim, it also had many changes that caused problems to sound events and workflow. Some of these exist until this day.

Being as the majority are in favour of the heavier wind sound, I can re-introduce it at some point.

Icer, I've read your post in the IL2 GB forum and you state that the "engine/wind/whatever" sound is too loud while the "guns and external explosions" are fine. We have a resident regular pilot who states that the loudest thing within the cockpit is the engine and I know this myself from time flying in Piper Cherokees and everyone here seems to want the wind to be louder. There have been engine loading effects added to many of the engines and admittedly, although there is a need to remix some of these, all the sounds are generally only slightly louder than they originally were, its only the wind sound that has changed.

The last sound update was 1 of 3 to improve any issues with the new sound engine, eliminate any bugs such as the dreaded (and evasive) overstress sound and the final of these will address any mixing issues. It would be a shame to overlook the hard work of so many members due to one issue. I'll take into account your comments when remixing and maybe there is the possibility to add a "headphone" effect. However it would be impossible to have a volume control for cockpit sounds due to the issues with the "sound radar" mentioned above and pilots setting it to low to gain advantage.

The sounds are an ongoing WIP and I do hope that you will stick with us as we move forward. It really is early days and as a rag tag bunch of developers who do this in our spare time for the love of the sim, sometimes it seems that updates are slow and issues are being overlooked, but this is not the case. There is always so much work going on behind closed doors to make this sim as good as it can be.
Cheers,
Slip.

[Patricks]

Hi All,

Thanks for your comments and for resurfacing this thread as I'd either never seen it or forgotten about it. I have quite a few sections to get down before I reach this point.

Snappers comment was right. The current wind sound is the original sound and the heavy wind sound was added at a time when we didn't have access to the game files like we do now and it was an attempt to cancel out the fact that red pilots were flying around with the canopy open in order to gain an advantage using the "sound radar" which the blues couldn't use without ejecting the canopy. It was also at a time when the Merlin's engine sound was much weaker than the DB601.

In TF5.0 we had a sound engine change, which for as many improvements and possibilities it brought to the sim, it also had many changes that caused problems to sound events and workflow. Some of these exist until this day.

Being as the majority are in favour of the heavier wind sound, I can re-introduce it at some point.

Icer, I've read your post in the IL2 GB forum and you state that the "engine/wind/whatever" sound is too loud while the "guns and external explosions" are fine. We have a resident regular pilot who states that the loudest thing within the cockpit is the engine and I know this myself from time flying in Piper Cherokees and everyone here seems to want the wind to be louder. There have been engine loading effects added to many of the engines and admittedly, although there is a need to remix some of these, all the sounds are generally only slightly louder than they originally were, its only the wind sound that has changed.

The last sound update was 1 of 3 to improve any issues with the new sound engine, eliminate any bugs such as the dreaded (and evasive) overstress sound and the final of these will address any mixing issues. It would be a shame to overlook the hard work of so many members due to one issue. I'll take into account your comments when remixing and maybe there is the possibility to add a "headphone" effect. However it would be impossible to have a volume control for cockpit sounds due to the issues with the "sound radar" mentioned above and pilots setting it to low to gain advantage.

The sounds are an ongoing WIP and I do hope that you will stick with us as we move forward. It really is early days and as a rag tag bunch of developers who do this in our spare time for the love of the sim, sometimes it seems that updates are slow and issues are being overlooked, but this is not the case. There is always so much work going on behind closed doors to make this sim as good as it can be.
Cheers,
Slip.

Slip, please take whatever I put forward regarding CLoD as ONE old guys experience and the weight that carries (none). You guys did a great job with this title and continue to do so on an ongoing basis (I see the VR beta is starting!). If the majority of people (that actually matter) agree it should be that loud (or louder?) in the cockpit with canopy closed so be it! I fly DCS/IL-2/BMS Falcon also so I pop back/forth a lot. I also have a nice Sennheiser headset coming next week to replace this Logitech toy and that may play a part in my perceived sound quality. I'll pop back in today and do some comparisons with canopy open/closed in a Spit at speed to see what I hear.. in my mind right now the closed operation sounds like it's open, but thats from memory soo... I'm still trying to wrap my head around people cheating using "sound radar", I hate cheaters.

EDIT: I just ran a few more tests, and have come to the conclusion that it is definitely the wind buffet sound that my ears fight with. I ran a Spit in free flight at 300mph, +3 boost, 2650 RPM. I cycled the canopy open/close several times and notice an increase of sound/engine noises when open, as it should be. I also noticed a slight wind intensity change if I turn my head (TIR) into the 4:00-8:00 position, which I didn't expect. Then I hopped in a 109, 400kph (1st time in a 109 in CLoD!) and to me it sounded better, with a bit less buffeting sound. I also noticed in this plane that when I turned my head toward the 6:00 position the wind noises reduced to a point where they were there but faint it was just right (to me) when I faced the headrest pad. No idea how/what/why, just know after several tries it seemed consistent.. and I find I liked the 109 better during these brief flights so looks like i'm a Jerry now..

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Hi Icer,

Thanks for your reply, I really am glad you're still enjoying the sim and I do sympathize on the issues with your hearing as I have them myself after many years playing in bands without ear protection and listening to music (and of-course sounds) through headsets and I know how certain tones/frequencies, even at low levels, can trigger bouts of tinnitus that go on for days.

May I ask which mark of Spitfire you were flying? It seems you may have been using the new Merlin 45 engine because of the panning issue in the cockpit. If so that is an easy fix.

Like I said in the post above. I'll be updating the sound engine in 3 parts (2 after the last one) and I hope this will restore the sound environment to the same, if not better than it was in TF4.5.

In the meantime, if you (or anyone else for that matter ) has any issues with sound, please feel free to let me know.

You can do this through the bug tracker or by posting in the relevant section in the Team Fusion forum.

Cheers,
Slip

Slip, please take whatever I put forward regarding CLoD as ONE old guys experience and the weight that carries (none). You guys did a great job with this title and continue to do so on an ongoing basis (I see the VR beta is starting!). If the majority of people (that actually matter) agree it should be that loud (or louder?) in the cockpit with canopy closed so be it! I fly DCS/IL-2/BMS Falcon also so I pop back/forth a lot. I also have a nice Sennheiser headset coming next week to replace this Logitech toy and that may play a part in my perceived sound quality. I'll pop back in today and do some comparisons with canopy open/closed in a Spit at speed to see what I hear.. in my mind right now the closed operation sounds like it's open, but thats from memory soo... I'm still trying to wrap my head around people cheating using "sound radar", I hate cheaters.

EDIT: I just ran a few more tests, and have come to the conclusion that it is definitely the wind buffet sound that my ears fight with. I ran a Spit in free flight at 300mph, +3 boost, 2650 RPM. I cycled the canopy open/close several times and notice an increase of sound/engine noises when open, as it should be. I also noticed a slight wind intensity change if I turn my head (TIR) into the 4:00-8:00 position, which I didn't expect. Then I hopped in a 109, 400kph (1st time in a 109 in CLoD!) and to me it sounded better, with a bit less buffeting sound. I also noticed in this plane that when I turned my head toward the 6:00 position the wind noises reduced to a point where they were there but faint it was just right (to me) when I faced the headrest pad. No idea how/what/why, just know after several tries it seemed consistent.. and I find I liked the 109 better during these brief flights so looks like i'm a Jerry now..

[Patricks]

Hi Icer,

Thanks for your reply, I really am glad you're still enjoying the sim and I do sympathize on the issues with your hearing as I have them myself after many years playing in bands without ear protection and listening to music (and of-course sounds) through headsets and I know how certain tones/frequencies, even at low levels, can trigger bouts of tinnitus that go on for days.

May I ask which mark of Spitfire you were flying? It seems you may have been using the new Merlin 45 engine because of the panning issue in the cockpit. If so that is an easy fix.

Like I said in the post above. I'll be updating the sound engine in 3 parts (2 after the last one) and I hope this will restore the sound environment to the same, if not better than it was in TF4.5.

In the meantime, if you (or anyone else for that matter ) has any issues with sound, please feel free to let me know.

You can do this through the bug tracker or by posting in the relevant section in the Team Fusion forum.

Cheers,
Slip

Thank Slip, and yes I select the Merlin 45 and Mirror options out of habit so you are likely spot on. I am going to guess its a Spit I as it's the default Free Fly single mission. As for the head turning, the sound in the 109 was absolutely perfect when I was facing 6:00, but that is hazardous, though with my skills it doesn't make a lot of difference.. I hate reporting this as a "bug" as it really is a personal thing, not a bug in the sim..

[Flanker35M]

S!

Sorry for necroing this thread. Just a couple observations. First, the few WW2 pilots I have spoken to, all said that the rumble of the engine was loud, basically suppressing every other sound they heard. Even when firing the guns, more felt than heard. Now to Blitz/Tobruk. As Slipstream said the sounds are WIP = I am more than happy to wait for the work to be done. But some observations. For example canopy opening and closing. I can hear it over the sound of the engine with a closed cockpit from a plane some distance from me. Tested this with squad mates. Also the screech of tires during landing is pretty audible to a distance with same setting. Rather than being a bug I believe it is just a feature or as Slipstream said still WIP. A round of balancing the sounds and their levels down the line?

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Hi Flanker, you are totally right.

The problem is that when we upgraded from the previous version of the sound engine to the newest version, there were many changes and some of them have created lots of little undesirable results. On top of this the new version is more object orientated, which isn't a bad thing, in-fact its very good but and has many many more features, but its kind of like a getting a massive fraction down to its simplest form dealing with left overs from the old version.

Ultimately, I what need to do (and I'm in the process of doing) is rewrite the whole thing from scratch so its more streamlined and takes advantage of all these new features but its very time consuming as some require changes within FMOD and in the code.

I would like to encourage everyone to report anything that doesn't sound right, especially the smaller details such as the examples you provided below as its there are so many sounds, its physically impossible to me to go through every single sound as there are so many. Bugs and can be reported on the Bugtracker. I do check it and it will be seen and updated. Even if something isn't a bug or more of a feature request, I can update it with a reason and close/move it.

Just make sure its marked as Sounds or Audible effects so that I see it.

Cheers

S!

Sorry for necroing this thread. Just a couple observations. First, the few WW2 pilots I have spoken to, all said that the rumble of the engine was loud, basically suppressing every other sound they heard. Even when firing the guns, more felt than heard. Now to Blitz/Tobruk. As Slipstream said the sounds are WIP = I am more than happy to wait for the work to be done. But some observations. For example canopy opening and closing. I can hear it over the sound of the engine with a closed cockpit from a plane some distance from me. Tested this with squad mates. Also the screech of tires during landing is pretty audible to a distance with same setting. Rather than being a bug I believe it is just a feature or as Slipstream said still WIP. A round of balancing the sounds and their levels down the line?

[Patricks]

Hi Icer,

Thanks for your reply, I really am glad you're still enjoying the sim and I do sympathize on the issues with your hearing as I have them myself after many years playing in bands without ear protection and listening to music (and of-course sounds) through headsets and I know how certain tones/frequencies, even at low levels, can trigger bouts of tinnitus that go on for days.

Cheers,
Slip

Just an FYI - In my never ending quest to find a way to fly CLoD without my messed up ears bleeding I just purchased a SoundBlasterX G6 USB sound "card". I had hoped between the better quality (than the RealTek on-board chips) and adjustability in it's software I could change the sound output a bit. First thing I did was simply hit the "Scout Mode" button, which is supposedly used to enhance certain sounds like footsteps in FPS games among other things. Not relative to CLoD but WTH. It immediately took the "edge" off the wind buffet noise that haunted me! Flew around in a Spit IIa for 20 minutes without ear distress! Now I need to tweak it a bit, but for any others that have ear issues, this little G6 made a BIG difference.. actually all sims and voices are better now.

[NicodemusRa]

yes

[IIJG27Rich]

I don't think any other sim has that great HOWLING noise that Cliffs of Dover had. Looks like folks want it back