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Thread: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

  1. #31
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I disagree, at least in my style of play (and I flew a lot alone in periods where my teammates weren't flying).
    I always try to get the job done (kills or bombing obj) and always get home. Survivability is everything imho. What's the point of scoring point if you die soon afterwards?
    That's why a K/D ratio is highlighted in almost every game. It's easy to do tons of kills on airplanes still on the ground until you die, but going out, have some fights and kills and come back at base is always rewarding.
    At least that my point of view.
    No I agree on getting home, normally I do want to get home, I just mean on a quiet server with little in the way of visible stats to encourage, oh and I mean ground attack, not flying as a fighter.

    This 'issue' is about the numbers on the server, which is a time relative problem more than anything, and statistic detail as well as target value.

    For example: I fly for 35 mins, drop my bombs, do 37% damage, turn to fly home and know there's no-one else about to carry on the attack. That's when I start to think 'what is the point', I don't have the time to fly back 30 minutes, then fly back again 35 minutes and still probably not get enough damage done. Yes it is a personal attitude problem for sure but the online stats in BoX for ground attack are more encouraging, being able to see different ground targets for example and accuracy of hits, over a numebr of evenings flying.

    For me flying online is all about how the ground attackers are getting on, whether flying as them, or an escort/CAP. I have little care for my own fighter K/D or that of any of the other pilots, I want the ground attackers to succeed in their objectives. In BoX you can see so many aces rack up huge personal scores whilst their side loses the map time and time again.


    NB. In this mission the thread is about it was great fun for me the other day as it announced the approach of the AI bombers, I was able to move from my current objective (tracking the MTBs) and meet the bombers instead and enage. I took damage and made an emergency landing at Tobruk. All good fun.
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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  3. #32
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    This is why CloD needs a stats-system.

  4. #33
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
    I fly for 35 mins, drop my bombs, do 37% damage, turn to fly home and know there's no-one else about to carry on the attack. That's when I start to think 'what is the point', I don't have the time to fly back 30 minutes, then fly back again 35 minutes and still probably not get enough damage done.
    Fully agree.
    When you are a lone bomber, you have to make several lengthy trips to completely destroy the target.
    Also, you are systematically tracked on radar since you are the only bomber, regardless of any diversive routing you may try.
    Ideally, and this could be linked to a minimum number of players (or bombers), would be to have the possibility to take a few AI bombers with you, whose sole task would be to follow the leader in formation, shoot back when attacked, and drop bombs when leader drops (or at leader command).
    Also start radar tracking at altitudes above 50m would be neat...
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  6. #34
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Fully agree.
    When you are a lone bomber, you have to make several lengthy trips to completely destroy the target.
    Also, you are systematically tracked on radar since you are the only bomber, regardless of any diversive routing you may try.
    Ideally, and this could be linked to a minimum number of players (or bombers), would be to have the possibility to take a few AI bombers with you, whose sole task would be to follow the leader in formation, shoot back when attacked, and drop bombs when leader drops (or at leader command).
    Also start radar tracking at altitudes above 50m would be neat...
    Yes, the lone-bomber scenario is so off-putting. It wasn't until someone warned me they were logging off and I would be the only one on radar that I realised how I had been found on a couple of previous missions where I flew alone as a bomber and had taken a non direct route to target yet still was found easily.
    I am Yo-Yo not YoYo (that's someone else)

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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Re. lonely bombers, I think that is the main factor limiting proper bombing sorties. Back when there were still many squads flying CloD some of them would out some bombers together and go for targets. I remember doing that a lot with JG4 (they still do it in BoS).

    Since we don’t have that how, maybe an idea:

    Remember the MP feature of spawning AI with you when you hit create? AFAIK it has been disabled right at the beginning and has never worked, just the UI still shows it.

    But maybe spawning in some two, five or eight more AI bombers to follow you around / drop bombs on command via script could be a thing?
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  9. #36
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
    Yes, the lone-bomber scenario is so off-putting. It wasn't until someone warned me they were logging off and I would be the only one on radar that I realised how I had been found on a couple of previous missions where I flew alone as a bomber and had taken a non direct route to target yet still was found easily.
    Where available, hit tab 4 and send an AI bomber mission. Then spawn out and in. The radar will track the AI bombers until they finish their run before switching back to tracking you...
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  10. #37
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Removing the radar tab 7-1 would be another great thing. Unfortunately we are used to having useless things, even harmful to the game.
    AI bomber-raids are too.

  11. #38
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
    No I agree on getting home, normally I do want to get home, I just mean on a quiet server with little in the way of visible stats to encourage, oh and I mean ground attack, not flying as a fighter.

    This 'issue' is about the numbers on the server, which is a time relative problem more than anything, and statistic detail as well as target value.

    For example: I fly for 35 mins, drop my bombs, do 37% damage, turn to fly home and know there's no-one else about to carry on the attack. That's when I start to think 'what is the point', I don't have the time to fly back 30 minutes, then fly back again 35 minutes and still probably not get enough damage done. Yes it is a personal attitude problem for sure but the online stats in BoX for ground attack are more encouraging, being able to see different ground targets for example and accuracy of hits, over a numebr of evenings flying.

    For me flying online is all about how the ground attackers are getting on, whether flying as them, or an escort/CAP. I have little care for my own fighter K/D or that of any of the other pilots, I want the ground attackers to succeed in their objectives. In BoX you can see so many aces rack up huge personal scores whilst their side loses the map time and time again.


    NB. In this mission the thread is about it was great fun for me the other day as it announced the approach of the AI bombers, I was able to move from my current objective (tracking the MTBs) and meet the bombers instead and enage. I took damage and made an emergency landing at Tobruk. All good fun.
    Yes, a good stats system for fighters AND bombers (like the one that bos have that is really in-depth an very good) is needed.

  12. #39
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Hi,
    Ezzie thank you for the mission and for the effort, any problems can be fixed along the way (and you can not satisfy everyone, there will be voices that will say that the beer was not cold enough, even if it is free).
    The idea of putting the planes that do not belong to the historical period on far-away bases, in my opinion, is good, it creates a balance compared to those who choose the historical version.
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Yeah I love to fly the long missions, and I ve even spent 1.5 hours getting a beaufighter rtb on single engine at 120mph. The only stat I ever counted was landed.

    Flew to Derna targets in a blennie during the livestream (even think Pattle picked me up part way although never had my gunner call contact). But is a long blooming way there never mind to Tipperary. When flak got me on egress had left two tankers on fire (just as I thought I'd got out safe). Still gives me times to finish them. So take a beaufighter go finish it. My surprise 40minutes later when crest the coast and theres still 3 pristine looking tankers in the harbour. And I got one bomb drop. Whats Ezzie done, elite damage control parties on board .
    I think its a great mission (along with Maltencruz that ran last night), variety of targets and distance to travel but for single bombers its almost impossible to get any target and usually not even information that you have hit the correct target.
    Was a great night (as these always are with full servers) but pretty frustrating attempting to kill targets.
    I missed having the squad to kill a target, but they all left. Cant speak for them all but nought to do with stats, they just felt the game play stagnated. My thought were take the bombs off 109s. You wanna bomb a target take the right tool, there is very little record either in desert or BoB of them doing this.

    It was probably me Yo-Yo saw crashing beaufighter taking off from Menastir. Not a poor sod, a pig headed one, I had done same thing the night before on missions unveiling. I knew the yellow signs went through the tents and flak at the bottom, just stubborn enough to try to prove I could make it(or not as it turned out). After that I just ignored flag and used the runway.
    The tab 7/1 is a game killer for me. Got brought home to me one evening taking ju87, only guy flying bomber or GA on team and we had the attack missions. Had not even left France before I was picked up and killed by a spit. I sat for 5 minutes and thought sod it and left. I seem to remember giving a warning to fellow bomber one night that I was offski. It a real PIA. I worked on Radars that could differentiate a fighter target from bomber, but had to wait until the mid nineties computer power to do it.

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  15. #41
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Is possible have also the Macchi 202 serie VII as well as the serie III?

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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Hi everyone,

    Thanks for all the thoughts and feedback. I'm reading them and will see what i can do to address some of them in the next update.

    A big issue I have at the moment is re the tanks - I'm not sure that the tanks are spawning in when they are supposed to - the trigger works because the message is displayed but i dont think the tanks are spawning in. Still investigating..

    Some replies re feedback

    I've been told the runway yellow marker board issue is a bug (its at Gazala #2 as well) but i need to check i havent screwed it up in the FMB (quite possible).

    re Macchis - will add when i do an update

    re ships fixing themselves - not sure what is going on there. From memory a couple of freighters arrive during the mission and maybe that is what you saw Stickz? I will check though.

    re fun attacking 111s - if you havent done so already Yo-Yo then check out the Rats Over Tobruk single player campaign that uses the same map, more or less. There's half a dozen similar types of raids.

    Some of the other ideas i'll see what i can do to address them in my Channel Map.

    Pls keep the feedback coming - it helps the mission builders to get ideas and fixes etc.

    Thanks

    Ezzie
    Last edited by ATAG_Ezzie; Nov-17-2020 at 03:05.

  17. #43
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    Re: Coming soon - Ziel Tobruk!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ezzie View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Thanks for all the thoughts and feedback. I'm reading them and will see what i can do to address some of them in the next update.

    A big issue I have at the moment is re the tanks - I'm not sure that the tanks are spawning in when they are supposed to - the trigger works because the message is displayed but i dont think the tanks are spawning in. Still investigating..

    Some replies re feedback

    I've been told the runway yellow marker board issue is a bug (its at Gazala #2 as well) but i need to check i havent screwed it up in the FMB (quite possible).

    re Macchis - will add when i do an update

    re ships fixing themselves - not sure what is going on there. From memory a couple of freighters arrive during the mission and maybe that is what you saw Stickz? I will check though.

    re fun attacking 111s - if you havent done so already Yo-Yo then check out the Rats Over Tobruk single player campaign that uses the same map, more or less. There's half a dozen similar types of raids.

    Some of the other ideas i'll see what i can do to address them in my Channel Map.

    Pls keep the feedback coming - it helps the mission builders to get ideas and fixes etc.

    Thanks

    Ezzie
    Sorry Ezzie wasnt suggesting there was something wrong. I have seen ships on fire surviving. I had 4x250lbs and dropped 2 per pass. Each pass was about 4 minutes apart. Its probable that I only hit each ship with a single bomb and from the practising I have done many times (yeah I know "you practise? - have you no life") Ive often seen fires extinguish themselves. A single 250 bomb needs to hit near the rear (non pointy bit) usually for a kill. Often it still does not seem to be enough and I have even convinced myself there is/was a difference between German and British tankers in pre Tobruk blitz. Just the "oh Bo***x" moment as I popped up on second trip and 3 ships sitting there grinning at me.
    It is a bit confusing because there was another ship out to sea, but it was still there on my second trip. I assume they were the correct target, it took long enough to reach that I assumed the 2 in the harbour and one just outside were the targets. They were the ones still afloat on my return.
    However I also passed several floating in various poses in mid air as I came into target. This happens quite a lot - and I assume its net code problems. Mirror mission I once dived from under a submarine (its usually docked beside the island) to attack a Radar site. On ATAG Blitz I have had upside down minensuchbooten shooting at me from under the surface (you can see the hull bottom above the surface) on many occasions. Actually they are quite accurate like it.

    To test if the tanks spawn in, my usual method is to put an AECM (cos they aint used often) where they should spawn, see it single player and fast time through. Or include AECM in the spawn items and fast wind as see if it then appears on cue visible/watchable.

    It was a great night. You and all the guys writing these deserve all the cudoes you can get but as others have said, as an almost totally GA guy it can be quite frustrating sometimes going to a target "knowing" alone you have almost zero chance to destroy it. With a second or even third trip requiring another 1.5 hours. You have to have a mindset that "settles" for a victory being getting in out and home in one piece. Add that there is also a strong possibility radar is pinging you (unless Jeepy and Snarglle have worked their special kind of magic and there are another 100 bombers flying around leaderless). I felt for noofy, when looking at the netstats he was the only blue flying a bomber, one 110 all the rest in F4s. I doubt he could even spawn and remain hidden.
    Having reread this - before it gives wrong idea, I love the long distance and variety of difficult targets. I just lament not having the squad (on CloD) to make a real dent in it any more.

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