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Thread: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

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    Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Hi all,
    Given the fun factor of the Great Wimpey Collective flight last Saturday, I've decided to do some online training to improve my skills as a Wimpey pilot.

    I will be online and on Teamspeak for anyone that wishes to join me to in getting to grips with engine management, formating, navigation, unravelling the mysteries of autopilot/Mode 22, landing bombs on target, getting the hell out of there once you've hit the target! etc.

    Details are:
    • Date: Thursday 7th Jan
    • Time: 8pm GMT
    • Teamspeak: Allied Forces Blitz Bomber Flight #1
    • Server: Most likely TFS#3 server

    Hopefully, we can have some fun learning more about this stunningly modelled aircraft, and then fly together on a few raids in the coming months. All welcome. The more the merrier!
    Cheers,
    Bubba
    ATAG_Bubba

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Oh, I am in for this!

    See you there!


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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Count me in Bubba....damn good show,Saturday night was a great

    See you on Thursday night

    Omp8mV0.gif


    PS Small ask....Would some fine fellow point me in the direction of the 'Airfield Elevation' figures for calculating the altitude drop,it would be very much appreciated,I know I've seen it on here before but can't for the life of me find it now I want it,thanks.
    Last edited by Meaks; Jan-04-2021 at 04:30.


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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Bacon and eggs in the mess and then I will be at dispersal.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    PS Small ask....Would some fine fellow point me in the direction of the 'Airfield Elevation' figures for calculating the altitude drop,it would be very much appreciated,I know I've seen it on here before but can't for the life of me find it now I want it,thanks.
    Last 3 pages of the flashcards document list all airfields on both the Channel and Tobruk maps, with grid locations and elevations.
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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    PS Small ask....Would some fine fellow point me in the direction of the 'Airfield Elevation' figures for calculating the altitude drop,it would be very much appreciated,I know I've seen it on here before but can't for the life of me find it now I want it,thanks.[/QUOTE]


    Hey Meaks,

    No other place than the last couple of pages of the flashcards, is where you will find the elevations

    Airfield elevations.PNG

    Cheers,

    Pattle

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Thanks Noofy and Pattle,very much appreciate the pointers guys.....absolutely capital


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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Happy to see so much enthusiasm for bombers.

    Here is a manual I am sure you will appreciate reading (click me).
    I recommend in particular section 2 (starting page 25).
    Enjoy
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    Unhappy Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbadeluxe View Post
    Hi all,
    Given the fun factor of the Great Wimpey Collective flight last Saturday, I've decided to do some online training to improve my skills as a Wimpey pilot.

    I will be online and on Teamspeak for anyone that wishes to join me to in getting to grips with engine management, formating, navigation, unravelling the mysteries of autopilot/Mode 22, landing bombs on target, getting the hell out of there once you've hit the target! etc.

    Details are:
    • Date: Thursday 7th Jan
    • Time: 8pm GMT
    • Teamspeak: Allied Forces Blitz Bomber Flight #1
    • Server: Most likely TFS#3 server

    Hopefully, we can have some fun learning more about this stunningly modelled aircraft, and then fly together on a few raids in the coming months. All welcome. The more the merrier!
    Cheers,
    Bubba
    Nice one Bubba.

    Hope to join you and others of the Wimpy Appreciation Society on Thursday, provided Mrs Boss hasn't got some jobs lined up for me.

    Cheers FB

    Vickers Wellington Mk1c. OJ-F P2517 'F for Freddie' of No.149 Squadron, star of 'Target for Tonight' directed by Harry Watt released in July 1941.

    Freddy prepares for an air test prior to departure from Ford on ops with No.149 Squadron for a daring daylight attack on Marshalling Yards in Caen France 31\1|21. ATAG Operation Milk Run. Target destroyed. Six Wellingtons, One Blenheim together with
    their Spitfire escort returned safely. One Wellington crashed on landing at Ford.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Hoping to join you on Thursday.

    Saturday night was fun, but highlighted some issues concerning flying the Wellington that I need to sort out

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Thanks for that link Noofy. Much appreciated. Look forward to having a read.

    Bubba
    ATAG_Bubba

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Happy to see so much enthusiasm for bombers.

    Here is a manual I am sure you will appreciate reading (click me).
    I recommend in particular section 2 (starting page 25).
    Enjoy
    Appreciate reading ?......Not many,Noofy.....this BIF manual is first class,top shelf buddy,many thanks indeed Sir.....blimey,there won't be any excuses for any fowl ups now will there ?


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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Laser View Post
    Hoping to join you on Thursday.

    Saturday night was fun, but highlighted some issues concerning flying the Wellington that I need to sort out
    Yes,you've hit the nail on the head there Laser,you and me both matey,Saturday night certainly highlighted my flying issues,I was way too cautious with my engine temps,on our next outing I'll hopefully address this......hopefully


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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    Yes,you've hit the nail on the head there Laser,you and me both matey,Saturday night certainly highlighted my flying issues,I was way too cautious with my engine temps,on our next outing I'll hopefully address this......hopefully
    Me to Meaks.

    Reminder to me. Don't take off with flaps fully extended. Ouch! Check the flap gauge

    Vickers Wellington Mk1c. OJ-F P2517 'F for Freddie' of No.149 Squadron, star of 'Target for Tonight' directed by Harry Watt released in July 1941.

    Freddy prepares for an air test prior to departure from Ford on ops with No.149 Squadron for a daring daylight attack on Marshalling Yards in Caen France 31\1|21. ATAG Operation Milk Run. Target destroyed. Six Wellingtons, One Blenheim together with
    their Spitfire escort returned safely. One Wellington crashed on landing at Ford.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    Appreciate reading ?......Not many,Noofy.....this BIF manual is first class,top shelf buddy,many thanks indeed Sir.....blimey,there won't be any excuses for any fowl ups now will there ?
    Since you enjoy learning here is a good tutorial on the topic. It is about the Norden bombsight, but the techniques are the same...

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    Yes,you've hit the nail on the head there Laser,you and me both matey,Saturday night certainly highlighted my flying issues,I was way too cautious with my engine temps,on our next outing I'll hopefully address this......hopefully
    It was the other way round for me. I was pushing my engines a little too hard trying to keep up and blew a gasket or something.
    My most pressing issue is getting the supercharger to engage. It's tricky trying to look down and left trying to click on the damn thing. Every other lever around it was moving, not the supercharger though. All this while also trying to fly straight. I tried to assign a key but that didn't work. Maybe try and bind it to an axis instead, see if that works

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    I have the supercharger assigned to a CH Quadrant axis - works a treat. I’ve been assembling a frankenstein collection of stored away controllers to utilize whatever axis & buttons still work. For instance, my old F16 Cougar has a broken Y-axis gimbal, but the stick itself works fine. Lots of handy buttons & hat switches, but it does make for some pretty loopy takeoffs and flying. Ditto with its accompanying TQS throttle - the throttle got bricked years ago during a firmware update flash, but it’s got still-functioning wheels that are dandy for trim controls.

    My Warthog flightstick base blew its control board years ago, forcing me to go to my backup TM16000 and Sidewinder 2 FFB sticks (both still work fine, thank goodness...just not enough buttons for serious Wimpey-work ). The good news is that Purolator has a new Warthog base out for local delivery today. Mrs Snapper arranged this as my hard-earned and well-deserved Christmas present this year. No more loopy take offs!



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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Laser View Post
    It was the other way round for me. I was pushing my engines a little too hard trying to keep up and blew a gasket or something.
    My most pressing issue is getting the supercharger to engage. It's tricky trying to look down and left trying to click on the damn thing. Every other lever around it was moving, not the supercharger though. All this while also trying to fly straight. I tried to assign a key but that didn't work. Maybe try and bind it to an axis instead, see if that works
    Hi Laser.

    Just been playing around with this impossible to move Supercharger lever. I too could not get it to move but have a solution now by using the previously unused ' O' slider axis on my Thrustmaster joystick, set to move the lever. I think it controls both engines but you can select single or both as required and it seems to work. The carb lever works ok with left mouse but Supercharger lever does not move with the mouse. Try it I hope it works for you.

    Cheers FB.
    Last edited by ATAG_Hawk; Jan-04-2021 at 10:58.

    Vickers Wellington Mk1c. OJ-F P2517 'F for Freddie' of No.149 Squadron, star of 'Target for Tonight' directed by Harry Watt released in July 1941.

    Freddy prepares for an air test prior to departure from Ford on ops with No.149 Squadron for a daring daylight attack on Marshalling Yards in Caen France 31\1|21. ATAG Operation Milk Run. Target destroyed. Six Wellingtons, One Blenheim together with
    their Spitfire escort returned safely. One Wellington crashed on landing at Ford.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    I use this controller for all the bomber controls. A bonus is the small joystick for trim control.

    side.jpg

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAK BOSS View Post
    Hi Laser.

    Just been playing around with this impossible to move Supercharger lever. I too could not get it to move but have a solution now by using the previously unused ' O' slider axis on my Thrustmaster joystick, set to open and close the lever. I think it controls both engines but you can select single or both as required and it seems to work. The carp lever works ok with left mouse but Supercharger lever does not move with the mouse. Try it I hope it works for you.

    Cheers FB.
    The Supercharger will work with the mouse but it's not easy to do it unless you have an 'Air Engineer' next to you to do it for you!!!

    I was trying to use Selected Supercharger - Cycle in the options for a key binding. This didn't work.

    Try Selected Supercharger - Previous & Selected Supercharger - Next. I managed to bind 'S' and 'L/Alt+S' on my keyboard for the two operations. I like to keep my HOTAS/Flight Stick buttons and switches for things I need to use all the time. The Supercharger shouldn't be required that much.

    07
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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    I'm using the 'Supercharger'on an Axis too,got it rigged up to one of my Saitek Throttle Quadrant levers,all working ok here.

    @ Noofy,Re The Noren Bombsight video....Thanks awfully old chap
    Last edited by Meaks; Jan-04-2021 at 14:55.


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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    I'm using the 'Supercharger'on an Axis too,got it rigged up to one of my Saitek Throttle Quadrant levers,all working ok here.

    @ Noofy,Re The Noren Bombsight video....Thanks awfully old chap
    I have a Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X with the separate throttle which has a spare, unused axis attached. Ok for the supercharger control. I just have to be careful not to move it when controlling the throttle. Wish I had your set-up mate with all them lovely levers
    FB

    Vickers Wellington Mk1c. OJ-F P2517 'F for Freddie' of No.149 Squadron, star of 'Target for Tonight' directed by Harry Watt released in July 1941.

    Freddy prepares for an air test prior to departure from Ford on ops with No.149 Squadron for a daring daylight attack on Marshalling Yards in Caen France 31\1|21. ATAG Operation Milk Run. Target destroyed. Six Wellingtons, One Blenheim together with
    their Spitfire escort returned safely. One Wellington crashed on landing at Ford.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Hi Bubba
    Will try and join up on Thursday night GMT if real life allows.

    Flakboss, like Vamps i have bound S key and Ctrl+S to next step and previous step on Supercharger so i can just one click.
    I have started turning on as part of pre take off routine as found it did no harm.

    In mid mission panic I can miss place all the keys i have bound so all manner of odd things can happen.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Slot View Post
    Hi Bubba
    Will try and join up on Thursday night GMT if real life allows.

    Flakboss, like Vamps i have bound S key and Ctrl+S to next step and previous step on Supercharger so i can just one click.
    I have started turning on as part of pre take off routine as found it did no harm.

    In mid mission panic I can miss place all the keys i have bound so all manner of odd things can happen.

    It can get confusing particularly when there is a lot of coms chat. I think that is why I failed to notice I had gone to full flaps on take off resulting in an almighty swing. OUCH!

    FB.

    Vickers Wellington Mk1c. OJ-F P2517 'F for Freddie' of No.149 Squadron, star of 'Target for Tonight' directed by Harry Watt released in July 1941.

    Freddy prepares for an air test prior to departure from Ford on ops with No.149 Squadron for a daring daylight attack on Marshalling Yards in Caen France 31\1|21. ATAG Operation Milk Run. Target destroyed. Six Wellingtons, One Blenheim together with
    their Spitfire escort returned safely. One Wellington crashed on landing at Ford.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Thanks for your suggestions concerning the Supercharger control.

    I am using a Saitek yoke+3 lever quadrant for flying the Wellington but unlike Meaks I only have 1 quadrant, which I also use for flying fighters with my Sidewinder joystick. I currently have the 3 levers set for Throttle, Rad & Prop pitch. I might swap the rad lever for the supercharger or try the key binding combo suggested by Vamps.

    Another option would be to dig out one of two crappy joysticks that I have in the loft, as Snap suggested.

    Intel i5-2500 CPU @3.30GHZ Quad core , NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti , 8GB RAM , Windows 10 pro 64-Bit, ASUS VS 278 27" Monitor , Microsoft Sidewinder 2 Joystick

    Saitek pro Flight Yoke, quadrant and rudder pedals

    PS3 eye Head Tracker using Trackhat software. Secondary Head Tracker , Ed Tracker

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  41. #26
    Supporting Member Dazza's Avatar
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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    These Wellington get togethers are tremendous fun with far more giggling than I recall in those famed Bomber Command combat recordings.

    Bombing is a co-ordinated effort so we could do with a few basics.

    With far more blind area than the pilot / crew views permit there's such high risk of collision. Though sometimes hilarious it ends our fun in an instant. I suggest the simple vic of 3 planes formation. From the wingmans' perspective the lead is at 1 o'clock and opposite wing at 3 o'clock positions (or 11 and 9 o'clock respectively), both in view simultaneously through 2 cockpit windows. Expanding on this a 4th a/c can take position behind the lead creating a diamond pattern. To him all 3 other a/c at 9, 12, 3 o'clock are easily visible.

    It takes a lot of concentration and co-ordination of power on / off to hold formation so the lead a/c should be consistent but NOT at full power. Any course deviation requires other aircraft on the inside and outside of the turn to power up or down respectively to hold position. Plus any a/c that falls back even slightly will never be able to regain position if the lead a/c is running flat out.

    Daz
    Last edited by Dazza; Jan-04-2021 at 12:31.

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    Manual Creation Group ATAG_Vampire's Avatar
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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Attached Images Attached Images
    "A nation that forgets its past has no future." - Winston Churchill

    My Rig: CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quard -Core Processor, Motherboard: Asus ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO ALPHA ATX LGA1151, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4x 8GB) DDR4- 3000
    Video Card:ASUS ROG STRIX RTX2080ti 11GB OS: Windows 10 Pro

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    These Wellington get togethers are tremendous fun with far more giggling than I recall in those famed Bomber Command combat recordings.

    Bombing is a co-ordinated effort so we could do with a few basics.

    With far more blind area than the pilot / crew views permit there's such high risk of collision. Though sometimes hilarious it ends our fun in an instant. I suggest the simple vic of 3 planes formation. From the wingmans' perspective the lead is at 1 o'clock and opposite wing at 3 o'clock positions (or 11 and 9 o'clock respectively), both in view simultaneously through 2 cockpit windows. Expanding on this a 4th a/c can take position behind the lead creating a diamond pattern. To him all 3 other a/c at 9, 12, 3 o'clock are easily visible.

    It takes a lot of concentration and co-ordination of power on / off to hold formation so the lead a/c should be consistent but NOT at full power. Any course deviation requires other aircraft on the inside and outside of the turn to power up or down respectively to hold position. Plus any a/c that falls back even slightly will never be able to regain position if the lead a/c is running flat out.

    Daz
    Good post Dazza and I agree with your ideas.

    Some degree of pre-planning is the way to go for future ops. The need for security would be essential of course but perhaps several leaders could be involved in the process and then have comprehensive briefing to the pilots, early enough so that participants know the mission targets and timings.
    Latecomers can be briefed on arrival. This would be similar to previous ATAG events.

    Vickers Wellington Mk1c. OJ-F P2517 'F for Freddie' of No.149 Squadron, star of 'Target for Tonight' directed by Harry Watt released in July 1941.

    Freddy prepares for an air test prior to departure from Ford on ops with No.149 Squadron for a daring daylight attack on Marshalling Yards in Caen France 31\1|21. ATAG Operation Milk Run. Target destroyed. Six Wellingtons, One Blenheim together with
    their Spitfire escort returned safely. One Wellington crashed on landing at Ford.

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  45. #29
    Supporting Member Dazza's Avatar
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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Just a thought for those using mouse clicks to operate bombardier / bombsight functions. When bound to keys or controls you don't have to be in the Bombardier position to adjust them. You can keep eyes on flying out / forming up etc while simultaneously set bombing altitude etc. At least the major input to 10,000 ft and bomb salvo for eg and then adjust as needed while on the bomb run. I figure most players fall back or out of formation while occupying other crew positions / functions.

    Obviously a good idea for everyone to try their hand with the sights at altitude bombing but if a/c form up in vics of 3 or a diamond box of 4 only the lead a/c needs to concern himself with targeting while the wingmen 'simplify' their role to stay in position and drop on his cue. I'd reckon any wider spacing than 3 aircraft abreast would put bombs off target except for the widest airfield. Of course assuming the lead a/c is central over the target.

    Again it's near impossible for any formation to stay together with the lead(s) at full power. Everyone's always in such a rush !

    Daz
    Last edited by Dazza; Jan-04-2021 at 14:23.

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    Re: Wellington training session Thursday 7th Jan 8pm GMT

    Hi gents,
    Very productive discussion here. From looking at the posts, the following could be a starting point:
    • Mission planning - I use the following on a second monitor or iPad as I find the in-game map tools a bit awkward: http://aljarasoft.webcindario.com/mapndb/
    • Pre-flight checks - I've printed and bound the excellent TFS Flashcards. I find it easier than bringing them up on the monitor, and they also contain the elevation of all airfields
    • Engine management
    • Comms
    • Forming up/formation flying

    Looking forward to getting together on Thursday.
    All the best,
    Bubba
    ATAG_Bubba

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