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Thread: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

  1. #31
    Ace 1lokos's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibsun View Post
    MFG Crosswind, ...

    And they are made of wood,...
    Is not in wood, this is bad information repeated in the Web by people who disdain the product (justifying for themselves their more expensive toys).

    Crosswind is made from a composite material (Formica™ like) used in kitchen cabinets manufacture (MFG primary business).

    I have seen pictures of "all metal" pedals with rust, what difficulty will happens with Crosswind.

    BTW - Crosswind V3 new features:

    - Mount holes for bolt a motorcycle steering damper, e.g. for use as helicopter pedal without the spring.

    - Heels rest/stop on pads is now fixed with two screws, allowing removed then and use the pads "heels on floor".
    Last edited by 1lokos; Jan-15-2021 at 13:16.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibsun View Post
    Was reading through it a long time ago, must have thought it's made of wood composite maybe because he comes from a furniture family businiss, but looking at it now, I can't find any description of what this composite is made of.
    Pretty sure this is indeed that case.

    Certainly was what I have always been lead to belive.


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    Supporting Member Karaya's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    I found this review of the Crosswinds:
    http://c-aviation.net/review/pedaly-...wind-review-6/

    A short search on the internet gives the answer – a composite based on phenol-formaldehyde resins. Rigid and highly resistant to damage. After shaping, they can machine it, but it is resistant to heat (as opposed to plastic).
    or here:
    https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic...-pedal-review/

    Materials: The hardware that comes with the pedals is very robust, nothing skimpy there. The material the pedals are made from , is a thermoset composite material with phenolic resin. Coming from the industry I am very familiar with it, and can tell you it is a very durable strong material, that in a gaming environment I can't see ever having a material problem with. It is some very stout stuff.
    Last edited by Karaya; Jan-15-2021 at 04:30.

  5. #34
    Veteran Combat pilot Meaks's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Here's a few pics of the new MFG Crosswinds V3 model with the new hydraulic damper......these are not my pedals BTW,mine are the V2 model,same colour(graphite)but no hydraulic damper.....just thought it would be nice to show others the V3 model.

    The damper kits will be available shortly from Milan at MFG.....can't tell you what price they may be though....expensive I expect.





    Last edited by Meaks; Jan-15-2021 at 09:26.


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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Just to make UK buyers beware ordering from Europe,,mate bought rudder pedals and had £55 import tax, and a £12 royal mail handling charge.

    Brexit

    Red
    Target 4 'o' clock low

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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by EAF602_Red View Post
    Just to make UK buyers beware ordering from Europe,,mate bought rudder pedals and had £55 import tax, and a £12 royal mail handling charge.

    Brexit

    Red
    On the other hand you should now also be able to deduct the VAT from the other end, which should compensate, right?
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    Supporting Member IIJG27Rich's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Just to give them a shoutout I bought a set of cheap O Pro Flight rudder pedals about 15 years ago and they still work just fine. I'm actually shocked at how well they've held up

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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals


  14. #39
    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    On the other hand you should now also be able to deduct the VAT from the other end, which should compensate, right?
    It's just such a hassle! When will politicians on both sides of the pond figure out how much indiscriminate taxes interfere with commerce. If England sells the same product for less out of pocket, I'll buy from England (Or any other free country).
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    Wink Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    When will politicians on both sides of the pond figure out how much indiscriminate taxes interfere with commerce.
    Politicians? Figure out? Really?
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  17. #41
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    The damper kits will be available shortly from Milan at MFG.....can't tell you what price they may be though....expensive I expect.
    This damper is motorcycle steering damper, not much expensive, check eBay, Aliexpress.

    Replika kit (image above) allow fit this damper in Crosswind previous version, as well R/C pig back shock in brakes - for have a hydraulic feel.

    Accord the Replika guy, he convinced MFG to use his design in the V3 version.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Jan-16-2021 at 15:12.

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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    STOP IT you are all making me think I better get a set of these now .They look cool and I dont even know if I need them? . do you think I need them for my bombers ??

    TGIF


    PS they are calling them Graphite could they be some sort of carbon fiber material ?
    Last edited by tgif; Jan-16-2021 at 18:48.

  19. #43
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    The Thrustmaster TPR Pendulum rudder pedals (Reviewed here in post #1) have arrived and been installed! I've had my feet on a lot of mechanical, hydraulic and fly-by-wire rudders in planes and simulators for about 45 years and these are the most realistic and most comfortable I've ever used. They move like real pedals in a T-38 Jet Trainer, which are similar to most airliners and (I think) most fighters due the "Hanging Down" pendulum geometry. They are infinitely adjustable for pitch and tension.

    After using them for a few sorties, it occurs to me that I needn't even think about them... they're just there, an extension of my feet... the way rudders ought to be. They center up with no pressure absolutely perfectly EVERY time.

    Assembly was a "No-Brainer" requiring four hex screws and two metric nuts using the included wrenches. Windows USB installation was "Plug and Play" with Windows 10 or optional Thrustmaster drivers. It's as simple as it gets.

    Programming Issue: There seems to be a glitch when using Thrustmaster TARGET Script Editor program scripting in that the rudder may not be recognized when all three axes are combined by the software. This in no way affects the use of the rudders if rudders are left in the unprogrammed state. Windows will recognize the normal "Thrustmaster Combined" device for aileron and elevator and buttons programming with TARGET SE, while the rudder and toe brakes operate normally as a separate device in the Windows Game Controllers window. I've read that aftermarket programming (FSUIPC, etc.) utilities also work properly but I haven't needed to load any of them in my simulators.

    Extra feature: My toes can fit under these pedals. It's not necessary to rest my feet on the pedals when not in use. (Just a little less wear and tear.)

    Only criticism: They cost too much. (But don't they all?)

    Final answer: Three Thumbs Up!
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-18-2021 at 09:44.
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  21. #44
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    After 7 years I changed my Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals for a set of VKB-T Rudder Pedals MKIV. €60,00 difference in price but in use a difference of day and night.If someone is looking for a not so expensive rudderpedal just go for VKB-T Rudder Pedals MKIV
    The only downside can be not having toebreaks on it.
    T-RudderMK4_5_small_blackbox.jpg
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  23. #45
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    "The only downside can be not having toebreaks on it."

    Errh:

    - The only downside can be not having (physical) toebreaks on it, but virtual "differential brakes" emulation for any plane - regard the plane has "tommy brakes" or "joe brakes", in any game (like IL-2:GB "Bo'X" have native "differential brakes" for any plane).
    Last edited by 1lokos; Jan-17-2021 at 16:30.

  24. #46
    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    VKB-T pedals look like a cheap alternative at $215US. Here's a link to the USA marketing site.

    https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv

    I notice that my feet rest on horizontal "Bars" when using my high-priced TPR's, almost like they would on this VKB product. Unless you want toe brakes, they might work as a good replica for WWII British fighters with "Rudder Bar" controls.

    EDIT: Please read Karaya's eval in post #47, below... can these really have no centering spring or other resistance?

    VKB HQ ships all products from China.

    ... something to consider...
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-18-2021 at 08:29.
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  25. #47
    Supporting Member Karaya's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    I tried the VKB T-Rudder pedals for ~2 weeks about 5 years ago but didn't like them at all. The way there is no resistance other than the force/pressure of your other foot is really weird when coming from more traditional pedals. I could never get the kind of precision out of them I would have liked to as it's way too easy to apply too much rudder with them. That's especially true for CloD where rudders are super effective compared to other sims. Imo they are best suited for helicopter sims, not so much for warbird and jet sims.

    In the end I went for the VKB Mk.19-3 pedals which were out of production at the time but I managed to get my hands on the last set VKB Europe had lying around. These have now been replaced by MFG Crosswind V3 pedals.

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  27. #48
    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Karaya View Post
    I tried the VKB T-Rudder pedals for ~2 weeks about 5 years ago but didn't like them at all. The way there is no resistance other than the force/pressure of your other foot is really weird when coming from more traditional pedals. I could never get the kind of precision out of them I would have liked to as it's way too easy to apply too much rudder with them. That's especially true for CloD where rudders are super effective compared to other sims. Imo they are best suited for helicopter sims, not so much for warbird and jet sims.

    In the end I went for the VKB Mk.19-3 pedals which were out of production at the time but I managed to get my hands on the last set VKB Europe had lying around. These have now been replaced by MFG Crosswind V3 pedals.
    Just an explanation for non flyers:

    Older airplanes and many modern General Aviation types have rudder systems rigged mechanically with cables. So, when not in flight, there is no resistance (Like the VKB-T's). If you push it to the side, it will just stay there unless the manufacturer has rigged a rare, "Centering spring". During ground ops, a crosswind will deflect the rudder and pedals if you don't have your feet on the pedals. It's all very normal and easy to learn or get used to. Once you apply power or face into a significant headwind, the rudder will try to streamline, with deflection pressure increasing proportionally to the airspeed. In flight, the same simple axiom applies: the faster you go, the harder it is to apply rudder. But since the rudder is more effective at high speed, a little deflection goes a long way and the resistance is natural and appreciated.

    In big and fast planes the controls are often powered by hydraulic actuators which are simply controlled by the rudder pedals. You move your feet to open the valves which moves the fluid to push the actuators which move the rudder that lives on the plane that Jack built. Since we can't feel the hydraulic pressure in the pedals like we can with direct cable controls, the engineers had to simulate that pressure with some kind of feel spring or other synthetic feel system to keep our feet happy. Hence, the problem with simulator rudder controls.

    In a commercial simulator, they engineer very sophisticated systems that take into account all the variables of speed, altitude, air density, etc. to feedback into the pedals through "Feel Springs", so it feels like the real airplane at all speeds. In our "living room" simulators, we must settle for "no feel", (like Karaya's VKB-T's), or "Fake feel" like all the rest using centering feel springs. Since there's no feedback from the computer's airspeed to adjust your "Crosswinds" or my "TPR" for air pressure, we just have to settle for a well thought-out spring algorithm to make the pressures somewhat realistic and smooth. I think they work very well at cruise speeds and higher. Only at very low speeds do these feel artificially heavy. (Near the stall speed, rudders should have nearly zero resistance).

    After all, it's just a video game...right?

    Finally, there are advocates for each kind of controls, both hydraulic and cable. Sometimes engineers must use hydraulics to overcome the forces required by high speed flight, but even some jet airliners had cable control systems before Fly-by-wire came along. One of the best flying airliners was the Douglas DC-9, known by many as the "Direct Cable - 9".
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-18-2021 at 20:13. Reason: low speed effects
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  29. #49
    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Is there any experience with these e TFRP MSRP.

    https://www.amazon.de/Thrustmaster-R.../dp/B01649IVI8

    Are they any good?

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    Supporting Member Karaya's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    Since there's no feedback from the computer's airspeed to adjust your "Crosswinds" or my "TPR" for air pressure, we just have to settle for a well thought-out spring algorithm to make the pressures somewhat realistic and smooth. After all, it's just a video game...right?
    That's why I like my Crosswinds. They have a centering spring as well as a cam design which means the force needed to deflect them increases somewhat exponentially towards full deflection. Comes closest to the control feel of the aircraft I've flown.

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  32. #51
    Supporting Member Kayo's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Well, the VKBs have a spring, it is not that they stay where you put them. And to my knowledge you can both adjust the spring tension and use 2 different cams.
    This is valid for the Mk IV, do not know if Karaya tested an earlier version without this feature?
    But of course, it is all about personal preferences and what requirements you have.
    For me for example it was important that they are quite small and easy to stow away as I do not have enough space and that they cannot slide on the floor when used.
    For me they feel reasonable real but my only experience is from flying PA28s not really comparable to a Wellington rudder bar I guess.

    And toe brakes, well I do not miss them, use 2 buttons on my joystick for the US-planes in CloD, there I guess non of the pedals out there really can match the real world feeling, eg when you try to get this bloody Piper Cadet around this tight corner to align with the parking lines and you stand with all your weight in the one brake but it’s just barely enough

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  34. #52
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Is there any experience with these e TFRP MSRP.

    https://www.amazon.de/Thrustmaster-R.../dp/B01649IVI8

    Are they any good?
    Flak Boss likes his. (I think they are what you are referring to.) see post #3, this thread.
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  36. #53
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Is there any experience with these e TFRP MSRP.

    https://www.amazon.de/Thrustmaster-R.../dp/B01649IVI8

    Are they any good?
    Hi Der Da.

    I have these pedals. I like them perfect for my use. Nice and solid and the best thing is they don't move around very much, even on carpet. The only minus point is some people think the pedals are too close together. I have small feet so no problem but if you have large feet they may not be for you.

    Flak.
    `What you have inherited from your ancestors, you must earn -- before you can own'. - AH.

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  38. #54
    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    [QUOTE=FLAK BOSS;369451. The only minus point is some people think the pedals are too close together. I have small feet so no problem but if you have large feet they may not be for you.

    Flak.[/QUOTE]

    They do look very close.

    To be honest though we all get used to whatever we have.

    Some still prefer twist grip for rudder.

    To me that makes no sense... but.... if it works...

    That's all that matters.





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  40. #55
    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAK BOSS View Post
    Hi Der Da.

    I have these pedals. I like them perfect for my use. Nice and solid and the best thing is they don't move around very much, even on carpet. The only minus point is some people think the pedals are too close together. I have small feet so no problem but if you have large feet they may not be for you.

    Flak.
    That they are close together that's just the most important point for me.
    I would like to move my whole setup to my desk, but there are chests of drawers left and right and my old pedals do not fit there.

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    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post

    Some still prefer twist
    [/COLOR]
    I certainly do!
    https://makeagif.com/gif/adamms-twist-Mvrv7m

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  44. #57
    Combat pilot FLAK BOSS's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    That they are close together that's just the most important point for me.
    I would like to move my whole setup to my desk, but there are chests of drawers left and right and my old pedals do not fit there.
    Hi DD.
    Just measured the pedals only 31cm wide. You may have enough space? And under 100 Euros.

    I bought mine on eBay £50.

    Flak.
    `What you have inherited from your ancestors, you must earn -- before you can own'. - AH.

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    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Recommendations for Rudder Pedals

    Here's a schematic diagram of the Thrustmaster TPR Pendular system:

    TPR_Rudder_Schematic_Cockpit_Setup.jpg

    There are holes and grommets for mounting the pedals to the floor, but they are unnecessary on most surfaces. My TPR sits on the floor and stays put. I have a board behind it to guage the distance from the wall and to prevent pushback, but it is not really necessary. TPR is larger than most pedals but it still fits under my desk with room to spare.
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-20-2021 at 09:48.
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