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Thread: Lorenz test mission

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    Lorenz test mission

    Here is a link to a mission I wrote to test the Lorenz functionality included in the latest MEV. It's pitch black and you are flying an He-111 P-2 approaching French Point intending to land at Oye-Plage. Essential radio information is in the briefing.


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/8uyua8205v...orenz.zip?dl=0

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    TF Leadership RAF74_Buzzsaw's Avatar
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Thanks for your work on this.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Just trying this now. Mission loads fine. Briefing not so - Blank.

    Any chance you can post the radio info here Oskar? Looking forward the this challenge

    Thanks mate.

    Pattle

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Briefing:

    Spoiler: 

    You are approaching French Point.
    Land at Oye-Plage using the Lorenz blind landing system which is installed on runway 07.
    Tune your secondary navigation frequency to 301khz and fly course 77 degrees magnetic.
    The runway is lit.
    Tune your primary navigation frequency to 302khz to pick up the beacon at Oye-Plage.
    The navigation beacon at Boulogne Alprech is also broadcasting at 303khz.


    Don't understand the purpose of this beacon in Boulogne.

    I try... several times. But AFN-2 still ... One time the needle hangs for right side, but most times keeps dancing "Hula-hula", don't tell if you are right or left of path.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    Briefing:

    Spoiler: 

    You are approaching French Point.
    Land at Oye-Plage using the Lorenz blind landing system which is installed on runway 07.
    Tune your secondary navigation frequency to 301khz and fly course 77 degrees magnetic.
    The runway is lit.
    Tune your primary navigation frequency to 302khz to pick up the beacon at Oye-Plage.
    The navigation beacon at Boulogne Alprech is also broadcasting at 303khz.


    Don't understand the purpose of this beacon in Boulogne.

    I try... several times. But AFN-2 still ... One time the needle hangs for right side, but most times keeps dancing "Hula-hula", don't tell if you are right or left of path.
    This mission only works if you are using the latest MEV which has the code fixed.

    Tune your primary frequency to 302 and your secondary to 301. Check the white arrow on your master compass showing the direction to Oye-Plage. You need to be flying along a line extending down the middle of the runway heading 77 degrees magnetic.

    The beacon at Boulonge is just to help you orient yourself.

    If you are having problems try setting the time to 14:00 and fly it during the day.

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    TF Leadership RAF74_Buzzsaw's Avatar
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Beta Testers do not yet have a version which can use the new mission.

    Hope to have a new beta version for them in the upcoming month.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    LOL... and I lost another good two hours with this thing, looking in that AFN-1/2 or dancing "hula-hula" or swing from 0 to 0.1 for right all time.

    Anyway, Outer and Inner marks (I add to mission) work, if overly at 300 and 200 meters respectively, but the lack of warning buzz don't help.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Just spent a good couple of hours on this mission.

    Great challenge. Definitely worth practising in daylight, or any light, dawn being a visual treat, before going dark.

    Thanks Oscar. Thoroughly enjoyable.

    Pattle

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    The key to using this device on the He-111 is comparing your bearing on the non-directional beacon to the heading you need to be on to land. The runway at Oye-Plage is at 77 degrees magnetic. For example, if you see the beacon is bearing at 90 degrees you are north of the Lorenz beam. If you are on the beam but not heading 77 degrees you will soon be off the beam.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    the link does not work. could you upload this again?

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by jg4_hanseat View Post
    the link does not work. could you upload this again?
    Here is an update.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfkxcob9hg...orenz.zip?dl=0

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Thank you, Oskar!
    I was able to blind land in this mission.
    I only saw the light blinking up very shortly and no beep is yet implemented. But it seems to be useful now!

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Managed to land in dark a couple of times, but only with beacon alignment on approach, and visual on final.
    Lorentz did not work with me. Or maybe I did not know how to use it?
    Frequencies set as per briefing, but needles do not move at all. LEFT-RIGHT stuck in middle, and UP-DOWN stuck on down.
    How far away from runway is it supposed to pick signal?
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Managed to land in dark a couple of times, but only with beacon alignment on approach, and visual on final.
    Lorentz did not work with me. Or maybe I did not know how to use it?
    Frequencies set as per briefing, but needles do not move at all. LEFT-RIGHT stuck in middle, and UP-DOWN stuck on down.
    How far away from runway is it supposed to pick signal?
    That beam is pretty narrow. Try using the custom button to set the time to daylight and fly low over the runway. Be sure your secondary is set to 301khz.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    That beam is pretty narrow.
    "The "Lorenz Beam" was designed for flying a specific course-line towards a short-range beacon that had relatively wide beam-aperture (5º)."





    BTW - Lots of original documentation about Lorenz (FuBl-1) in this DCS (Russian) forum about the matter:

    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...8&postcount=22

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    That beam is pretty narrow. Try using the custom button to set the time to daylight and fly low over the runway. Be sure your secondary is set to 301khz.
    Oh wow. Yes, pretty narrow indeed. I now have needle movement, but rather erratic.
    Tried various altitudes, left, right, and center line of runway. Could not tell any difference in the readings.
    The UP-DN needle seems stuck in the upper quadrant (45 deg angle up) and the LFT-RGT needle seems to be dancing the samba, with sporadic freezes over the middle point...
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    The AFN-1 needle in fact "dance' a bit, see in this videos (of Wehrmacht-awards):


    The first clip simulated an aircraft flying into the beam. It enters to the left of the beam, into the dot-zone. You can see that the instrument is pulsing left with the dots. Also note that a strengthening of signal makes the instrument point left. It was important for the pilot to distinguish between the pulses and the more gradual swings of the needle due to changing signal strength:

    https://youtu.be/vfSkcZVFe3o

    The second clip simulates the aircraft starting on the left of the beam in the dot-zone and flying starboard into the dash-zone.

    These first two clips do not only simulate a blind landing approach, but do also simulate the "Knickebein" beam guidance system used in early 1940 at the start of the Battle of Britain. At that time the earlier Ebl.1 receiver would still have been fitted to the German bomber aircraft:

    https://youtu.be/guUifTlZcoE

    Clip three simulates the "Vor-Einflugzeichen" (VEZ) or first approach beacon. The VEZ was located 3000 meters before the runway. This is a slow pulse, low tone signal. The pilot would approach on a constant height and on hearing the VEZ would start a given descent. Keeping one eye on the variometer and the other on the AFN he would be near the ideal glide path onto the runway

    https://youtu.be/YnYwdweLMOM

    Clip four simulates the "Haupt-Einflugzeichen (HEZ) or main approach beacon. The HEZ was located 300 meters before the runway. This was a fast pulse, high tone signal; the HEZ is an urgent warning that the pilot does not have a lot of time to make adjustments. The pilot would check his height and had to decide to continue the landing or abort. By now the runway lights should be visible for the final approach:

    https://youtu.be/8UsPYerEwiA

    The fifth clip shows the aircraft flying along the beam. It starts in the centre, moves to port into the dash zone, corrects but overshoots to the starboard side into the dash zone. The aircraft ends back onto the beam:

    https://youtu.be/H8xpMC0SJ9I

    The final clip shows all signals in a single clip, the aircraft is flying in the dot-zone and the VEZ and HEZ are triggered in quick succession. Not a very realistic scenario, but it allows to different signals to be compared:

    https://youtu.be/sb9Llv5B6xc
    "Experienced crews would actually not fly exactly in the equilibrium (constant tone) zone of the beam, they would fly slightly to the left, so that the dashes would just be audible.
    During blind landing this was found to be far more accurate than trying to stay in the equilibrium zone, experienced blind flying crews adopted this method for Knickebein also."

    Crews used to this method of follow dashes can counter British "Aspirin" jammers (for Knickebein).

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    The AFN-1 needle in fact "dance' a bit, see in this videos (of Wehrmacht-awards):
    This will be tested in the next version of the beta. It looks a lot like the video.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    This thing need the Morse Code sound:

    From PDF "Reconstruction of the” Funklande Gerät FuBl 2” H.Goulooze 07-03-2019"

    "ANF1 cockpit indicator for both the AFF signals and the VEZ and VEH signals.

    The AFN 1 indicator is full of technology not normally encountered in radio circuits.
    The audio dashes and dots from the EBl 3 are rectified such that DC pulses do arise.
    The signals are subsequently differentiated over a self inductance formed by the coupling transformer .
    The negative and positive going flanks are applied to the Left and Right moving coil course indicator.
    The deviation is not shown as a constant indication but is rhythmical indicated each second, based on the keying of the carrier and modulation."



    AFN1 lamp will lit in two colors, red for outer mark and green for inner mark?

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Oskar,

    Any chance that Beauighter and Wellington receive a functional D.F. (Direction Finding)?

    Attachment 40474

    Attachment 40475

    BTW - The British like complicate the things, instead one needle for show direction like in German instruments they use two.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    That's a great idea. I didn't realize the instrument was there. Not sure exactly how it works, like the BR20?

    To make this work we would probably need the cockpits changed, I have a feeling that the needle doesn't move.

    This isn't in the plan for TF5 but I'll keep it in mind.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    I am sure we can implement this for the Wellington, but it may not be there for TF 5.0... may come as a later patch.

    There are a lot of other priorities which we have to address first.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    That's a great idea. I didn't realize the instrument was there. Not sure exactly how it works, like the BR20?
    Seems that when both needles are up, parallel to center line, aircraft are on center of bean signal.

    "...a duplicate Visual Indicator in the cockpit on top of the glare shield, the pilot simply had to keep the needles on the centre line."
    http://www.chavfreezone.me.uk/ad8882b9.html

    "The term “Zero-reader” refers to the needles indicating zero deflection when on track and on glide-slope. "

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Made a video with the new lorenz system and the jumping needle.
    Passing both beacons before landing making the light blink once each beacon.
    Now it needs to blink more than once and the beeping sound



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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    "The "Lorenz Beam" was designed for flying a specific course-line towards a short-range beacon that had relatively wide beam-aperture (5º)."

    Thanks 1lokos!
    That's cool, I understand this as:

    AFF Beep sound at 1150 hz morse code:
    Right side of signal - each second "dash"(long) beeps
    Left side of signal - each second "dot" (short) beeps.
    Middle equilirium - continious beep.

    Before EFZ: AFF Beep + additional "before EFZ" Beep and light blinking: 3 "dash" (long) beeps each second at 700 hz.

    Main EFZ: AFF Beep + addional EFZ Beep and light blinking at 1700 hz 6 "dot" (short) beeps each second.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Tested several times. Works like a charm.
    Thanks for your inputs. It now all makes sense.
    These night landings are a total blast
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Tried the Ju88 as well.
    More challenging to stabilize than the He111, but worked OK.
    Do not use mode 22!! The plane sinks like hell. Course mode and trim.
    In the Ju88 I did not see the Lorentz light blink at the markers...

    EDIT:
    I saw the light on my third attempt.
    It blinks very briefly, and unless you are staring at the Lorentz at that moment you'll miss it.
    The instrument is not easy to see, hidden behind the stick.
    The light is white and gets faded by the cockpit lighting. Unlike the He111 where it is yellow, better located, and therefore easier to spot..
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Lorentz works fine in the 110 as well (tried it in the C7).
    Difficult to navigate without the beacons.
    I went in the general direction of Oye Plage (basically navigating on heading 75-80) then Lorentz picked signal around south of Calais city and I could follow the needles' indications to align on runway.
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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Tried the Ju88 as well.
    More challenging to stabilize than the He111, but worked OK.
    Do not use mode 22!! The plane sinks like hell. Course mode and trim.
    What? Using the autopilot while landing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    In the Ju88 I did not see the Lorentz light blink at the markers...

    EDIT:
    I saw the light on my third attempt.
    It blinks very briefly, and unless you are staring at the Lorentz at that moment you'll miss it.
    The instrument is not easy to see, hidden behind the stick.
    The light is white and gets faded by the cockpit lighting. Unlike the He111 where it is yellow, better located, and therefore easier to spot..
    If it's easier for you just hop in the dorsal gunner's position, he has a Lorenz repeater back there.

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    Re: Lorenz test mission

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Lorentz works fine in the 110 as well (tried it in the C7).
    Difficult to navigate without the beacons.
    I went in the general direction of Oye Plage (basically navigating on heading 75-80) then Lorentz picked signal around south of Calais city and I could follow the needles' indications to align on runway.
    The 110 has the gear to receive beacon signals, but it's in the observer's position. We'd have to model that as a separate cockpit.

    The Ju-87 is Lorenz only.

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