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Thread: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

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    Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Was there ever a real superior (likewise extreme expensive) super plane available in 2 ww for axis or allied forces?

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Yes, according to "The Final Countdown":


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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    .
    Last edited by LARRY69; Mar-06-2021 at 12:42.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Would say the Me 262, you could only take it down when it was landing, taking off or on the ground.

    A great advantage lost right there.

    Messerschmitt_Me_262A_at_the_National_Museum_of_the_USAF.jpg

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    I’d say the Caproni Ca.60 would have been a very "expensive" candidate if the project was not dropped before the war.
    And what a challenge to model it in the sim that would have been

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maru View Post
    Would say the Me 262, you could only take it down when it was landing, taking off or on the ground.

    A great advantage lost right there.

    Messerschmitt_Me_262A_at_the_National_Museum_of_the_USAF.jpg
    The Ho 229...

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Realistically, you would have to say the jets. However they were not without their faults.

    The Me-262 was notoriously unreliable, for example. If the P-80 had seen some actual combat I bet it would have been considered a super-plane for sure.

    When it comes to props, it's trickeier to say. For a short period of time, the Fw-190 A was definitley superior to anything the RAF had in western Europe in terms of performance (vs the Spit V mainly.)

    Some late war props were definitley "super" - like the Tempest or the P-51H or the Ta-152. But I would have a hard time figuring out which one was truly superior to all of the others. Just try and go to the IL2 Bodenplatte or DCS WWII forums and ask them if the Dora or the Kurfurt or Mustang or Tempest is better. Then come back when the forum thread is 100 pages long and the national archives of the UK, USA, Germany, India, Chile, Congo, and the Pitcairn Islands have all been raided for any last mention of one being faster or climbing higher. And I haven't even mentioned boost pressures or fuel octane yet! Yikes!

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Flare View Post
    Realistically, you would have to say the jets. However they were not without their faults.

    The Me-262 was notoriously unreliable, for example. If the P-80 had seen some actual combat I bet it would have been considered a super-plane for sure.

    When it comes to props, it's trickeier to say. For a short period of time, the Fw-190 A was definitley superior to anything the RAF had in western Europe in terms of performance (vs the Spit V mainly.)

    Some late war props were definitley "super" - like the Tempest or the P-51H or the Ta-152. But I would have a hard time figuring out which one was truly superior to all of the others. Just try and go to the IL2 Bodenplatte or DCS WWII forums and ask them if the Dora or the Kurfurt or Mustang or Tempest is better. Then come back when the forum thread is 100 pages long and the national archives of the UK, USA, Germany, India, Chile, Congo, and the Pitcairn Islands have all been raided for any last mention of one being faster or climbing higher. And I haven't even mentioned boost pressures or fuel octane yet! Yikes!
    Tale as old as time. Usually it boils down to my plane should be the best in the name of historical accuracy of course.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    The CAC Boomerang.
    Author of the Their Finest Hour, Their Greatest Challenge, Desert Hawks, Eagles over Tobruk, On Ne Passe Pas!, and Rising from the Ashes campaigns for Cliffs of Dover Blitz and Desert Wings - Tobruk.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander View Post
    Yes, according to "The Final Countdown":

    Doggie was rescued.
    All is good!

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Rapid Development in that sector

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Wot Larry said.

    The B29 programme actually cost twice as much as the Manhattan project. It's ability to carry nuclear weapons put it in a rather different league from other aircraft of the time.

    Must have been a bit of a sickener for Uncle Sam to discover the Soviets had saved all that huge development cost by reverse engineering the four B29's that fell into their possession during WW2 to produce over eight hundred Tu4's.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk 1 View Post
    Obelisk and the flying coffins
    maniac fighter ace pilot of the Sonderkommando
    high on drugs from the reichs pharmacy
    We bomb the shit(or?/fuck) out of europe/(the whole world)
    ,youll bury your mom(/and your love) youll see!
    Ich finde deine Unterschrift beleidigend...
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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Ich finde deine Unterschrift beleidigend...


    ^^

    und warum?

    next write pm if your found a problem
    Last edited by Obelisk 1; Mar-06-2021 at 13:24.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk 1 View Post
    ^^

    und warum?

    next write pm if your found a problem
    I did. Check your mail.
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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    All the jets were super planes by the day's standards.

    The British and Americans didn't fly their jets over enemy territory because they considered it was too much of a risk to let them be captured.

    They were aware of how many problems the Germans were having with their jet engines... the British Rolls Royce Derwent and later the De Havilland Goblin were far more reliable. And they didn't want to allow the Germans to reverse engineer them.

    They didn't have to pressure or the need to fly them... they already had air superiority and the few German jets weren't going to change that fact.

    The B-29's were obsolete as soon as the first Jet Fighter was built... they were torn to pieces over Korea by the MiG's when they attempted to fly in daylight... after the first few missions, they were switched to night bombing.

    A much bigger error allowing reverse engineering was the sale of the Rolls Royce Derwent and Nene engines to the Soviet Union by Britain... the Soviets reversed engineered these and put them in their jet fighters, the MiG-15 had a copy of the Dene.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post

    A much bigger error allowing reverse engineering was the sale of the Rolls Royce Derwent and Nene engines to the Soviet Union by Britain... the Soviets reversed engineered these and put them in their jet fighters, the MiG-15 had a copy of the Dene.
    Yep, we sold them an astonishing fifty-five units before it occured to anyone that they would be used against us and there wouldn't be much in the way of royalties coming through. The B29 and it's ilk - and that includes the B52 - were made obsolete by advances in Soviet radar and anti-aircraft missiles as much as the jet engine.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    The CAC Boomerang looks dangerous.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    somehow you can compare 2 ww fighter aircraft manufactures with f1 racing teams

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    A much bigger error allowing reverse engineering was the sale of the Rolls Royce Derwent and Nene engines to the Soviet Union by Britain... the Soviets reversed engineered these and put them in their jet fighters, the MiG-15 had a copy of the Dene.

    “What sort of idiot would sell us his secrets?”
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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    First Flight of Yak-15 on 24 April. First Jet fighter of the soviet forces

    Yakolev_Yak-15_37_yellow_(8454539446).jpg
    Last edited by Obelisk 1; Mar-16-2021 at 00:21.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    1940
    monoplane with two engines reaches 1940 over 630 km/h and is fastest plane. Its the mosquito.

    In Germany 1942 they speak about a "Mosquito-Plague"

    Mosquito_600pix.jpg

    1943 Me109 reaches <630km/h

    De Haviland Vampire
    30. September 1943 reaches 825 km/h


    De_Havilland_Vampire_FB.6,_Private_JP6615516.jpg


    678 km/h with 1 × DB 603G, 1397 kW (1900 PS) in 209 V5 (First Flight: 3. November 1943)

    Messerschmitt_Me_209_V-4_on_the_ground.jpg

    Me209 (Wikipedia:
    The aircraft achieved its purpose when test pilot Fritz Wendel flew it to a new world speed record of almost 756 km/h (469 mph) on 26 April 1939, bearing the German civil registration D-INJR.[4] This record was not officially broken by another piston-engined aircraft until 16 August 1969 by Darryl Greenamyer's highly modified Conquest I[5] F8F Bearcat, now at the Smithsonian's NASM.[6] The Me 209 V1's speed record was itself shattered in terms of absolute speed, eighteen months later by Heini Dittmar, flying another Messerschmitt aircraft design, the Me 163A V4 rocket fighter prototype to a 1,004 km/h (624 mph) record in October 1941.)

    Why is the Me209(BF109R) 1939 faster than the Me209 V5 from 1943?


    The Ho229 was uncontrollable without autopilot right? Far Ahead for the time

    ho229--3-.jpg

    950 km/h 1. März 1944 first flight Ho229 was very late to the war.


    super plane is somehow misplaced word cause if we compare b29 with me109 ?


    Empty 33,793 kg 357 mph (575 km/h, 310 kn)
    8 or 10× .50 in (12.7 mm) Browning M2/ANs in remote-controlled turrets.
    2× .50 BMG and 1× 20 mm M2 cannon in tail position (the cannon was later removed)

    B-29_in_flight.jpg

    2 tons and 569km/h
    2 Cannon 2 MG

    InSCALE-InSCALE-LUFTWAFFE-BF-109-E7-DAK-DESERT-AFRIKA-CORP-LUFTWAFFE-MOTTLED-CAMOUFLAGE-PATTERNS.jpg

    Mosquito has no priority to be build cause two engines = 2 air planes -> The more the better?
    So the fighters must match the bombers speed. To get the bombers down.
    And fighters have to fight against other fighters. How apparent you might think.

    But is the mosquito/vampire not the fastest and so the best fighter in combat?

    We got four mosquito vs four bf109 and we got four spitfire and four bf109
    Who would win with which win/lose-rate?(superior fighter vs standard fighter
    // standard fighter vs standard fighter)

    302565_poster_l.jpg


    1945 Me262 is fastest with 870 km/h in 6000m altitude.
    Me262 is by many considered to be best fighter because it is goes so fast with the never before seen jet engines. (Only shotable when its landing)

    Messerschmitt-Me-262-169FullWidth-306e3d21-1648580.jpg

    Lavochkin-La-5-captured-by-German-Forces-01.jpg

    And then we got a pilot. Important guy.

    Me_163_940_1_cb0f84dae975aacd5dac2271fa21ac60.jpg

    We also have armor a B17 is called flying fortress. But well thats how this end its just stupid you cant compare pears with grapes.

    si97-15363h.jpg


    The pursuit of speed was in second world war one of the most important things of aerial warfare.
    Maneuverability was not anymore as important as in first world war.




    The pilot is one of the factors.

    this could mean a plane is more important than a better plane


    As it transpired, only 20 aircraft were built in 1941, but the other 30 were delivered by mid-March 1942.[35] During the Battle of Britain, interruptions to production due to air raid warnings caused nearly a third of de Havilland's factory time to be lost.[36] Nevertheless, work on the prototype went ahead quickly at Salisbury Hall since E-0234 was completed by November 1940.

    easily beating the Spitfire Mk II in testing at RAF Boscombe Down in February 1941, reaching a top speed of 392 mph (631 km/h) at 22,000 ft (6,700 m) altitude, compared to a top speed of 360 mph (580 km/h) at 19,500 ft (5,900 m) for the Spitfire.


    Merlins fitted with a two-speed, two-stage supercharger. The first flight with the new engines was on 20 June 1942.[48] W4050 recorded a maximum speed of 428 mph (689 km/h) at 28,500 ft (8,700 m) (fitted with straight-through air intakes with snow guards, engines in F.S. gear) and 437 mph (703 km/h) at 29,200 ft (8,900 m)

    Since the beginning of the year, the German fighter force had become seriously overstretched.[117] In April 1943, in response to "political humiliation" caused by the Mosquito, Göring ordered the formation of special Luftwaffe units (Jagdgeschwader 25, commanded by Oberstleutnant Herbert Ihlefeld and Jagdgeschwader 50, under Major Hermann Graf) to combat the Mosquito attacks, though these units, which were "little more than glorified squadrons", were unsuccessful against the elusive RAF aircraft.

    P38L Maximum speed: 414 mph (666 km/h, 360 kn) 1944

    Lockheed_P-38H_Lightning_-_1.jpg

    the mosquito might be the super plane till 45?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Obelisk 1; Mar-16-2021 at 11:57.

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    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Numbers on paper are ... just that: numbers on paper.

    They don't win fights. The pilots win fights.
    The aircraft is just a tool to help the pilot. If you have an aircraft that goes 700 km/h but the pilot has to operate 25 levers, switches and buttons and closely watch 10 gauges to reach this, an aircraft that goes just 650 km/h but is easy to handle is the better aircraft (see FW190 vs. Me109 or the fantastic specifications of Russian fighters).

    A 'super plane' cannot exist, because the tasks for aircraft and the conditions under which they have to fulfill these tasks are much too varied.
    Speaking only about fighters, a bomber interceptor, a long-range escort fighter, a high-altitude dog-fighter, a low-level intruder - to name just a few tasks - all need to meet very different specifications. Then double all this by adding the planes that can take off from carriers.
    And we did not even start to think about ground attackers, light bombers, medium bombers, heavy bombers, reconaissance aircraft, transports ...

    The most successfull aircraft that was used during WW II and is still in use today is the DC3. So, if you need a super plane ...

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    It would be a plane that is able to destroy every other plane. "super plane" that term has nothing to do with strategy or something like this

    the mosquito plague is like the me109 against polish air force they had more speed but not the maneuverability so they went out of the fight and went back in. thats what mosquito could do to standard fighters till 45?

    " The Mosquito ended the war with the lowest loss rate among any aircraft in RAF Bomber Command."

    dc3 is really succesful plane

    German_12.8_cm_Flak_40_-_static_mount.jpg
    12,8-cm-Flak 40(German)


    The mosquito is described as easy in operation. there are not 10 gauges like with the me109 vs fw190(you mean the engine control of the k-modell?)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Obelisk 1; Mar-16-2021 at 12:12.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk 1 View Post
    It would be a plane that is able to destroy every other plane.
    The Hurricane, Spitfire, Bf-109, Fw-190, P-40, P-51, A6M, Ki-43, Yak-1, La-5, G.50, and C.202 were all able to shoot down every type of aircraft they went up against. Every fighter could, albeit some needing better pilots and situations than others.
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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk 1 View Post
    Was there ever a real superior (likewise extreme expensive) super plane available in 2 ww for axis or allied forces?
    No. These are not static things to be viewed in isolation. Today's "super 'plane" is tomorrow's workhorse and next week's outdated deathtrap.

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    Re: Was there ever a super plane in 2ww?

    mosquito just a paper tiger

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