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Thread: Prototypes for some new products

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    Prototypes for some new products

    Trim controller with switches or encoders, and quadrant controls with switches or encoders. Coming soon! Quadrant controller uses the new V2 quadrant with adjustable brake.

    IMG_20210517_121900341_compress41.jpg
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Pre-production versions now available:
    https://www.etsy.com/listing/1028988...e_feat_1&frs=1
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    Ace Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders's Avatar
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Any idea if/when the Gear-Falcon Trim Box black variants will become available again?

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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders View Post
    Any idea if/when the Gear-Falcon Trim Box black variants will become available again?

    I haven't put one together yet, but if you're interested I can do it. Left or Right?
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    I just ordered the green right hand version.

    FE47D9A4-A92B-48D6-BA90-5B08BBFE9067.jpg

    I’ve never been overly happy with using CH Quadrant levers, joystick hats, etc for trim, so I’m really looking forward to adding this unit to my virtual cockpit.


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    I haven't put one together yet, but if you're interested I can do it. Left or Right?
    There's no hurry mate I'll probably buy it around the end of the summer depending on Reichmarks availability and Frau Mölders " Approval "
    ( I'll contact you when needed ).

    Thanks for your quick reply and your really outstanding works! Great job man!
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Jul-06-2021 at 12:56.
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    I've decided to forgo the plywood clamp mount quadrant/trim controls and make them from plastic. I've avoided it in the past because they take so long to print (around 20 hours for the two halves), but I hate working with wood for this stuff, and if I have to I'll just buy more printers. Will post pictures once I have something I like.
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    I just ordered the green right hand version.

    FE47D9A4-A92B-48D6-BA90-5B08BBFE9067.jpg

    I’ve never been overly happy with using CH Quadrant levers, joystick hats, etc for trim, so I’m really looking forward to adding this unit to my virtual cockpit.
    Why the heck is shipping to Canada so expensive? It's like you guys are on the moon. I've shipped product to The Netherlands, to Greece, to the UK, to Australia, even to Tahiti, and it wasn't that expensive! I've sent some of my smaller items to Canada and the shipping far exceeded the cost of the product. You're just right over there! I could practically throw a rock and hit you! (Not that I would...I love our Canuck neighbors!)
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Why the heck is shipping to Canada so expensive? It's like you guys are on the moon. I've shipped product to The Netherlands, to Greece, to the UK, to Australia, even to Tahiti, and it wasn't that expensive! I've sent some of my smaller items to Canada and the shipping far exceeded the cost of the product. You're just right over there! I could practically throw a rock and hit you! (Not that I would...I love our Canuck neighbors!)
    Canada Post still relies on moose-pulled wagons to deliver items in Canada; it’s very expensive to maintain these animals in the swamp commonly known as Ottawa.


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Canada Post still relies on moose-pulled wagons to deliver items in Canada; it’s very expensive to maintain these animals in the swamp commonly known as Ottawa.
    Moose? Are you crazy? No wonder it's not working.
    Use reindeer like we do in Sweden. That will solve it.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2673&dateline=1390351127

    Principle skinner
    .

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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by major_setback View Post
    Moose? Are you crazy? No wonder it's not working.
    Use reindeer like we do in Sweden. That will solve it.
    That's right! They could fly right over those swamps!
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Canada Post still relies on moose-pulled wagons to deliver items in Canada; it’s very expensive to maintain these animals in the swamp commonly known as Ottawa.
    Ah, yes the Ottawa moose. This fellow wander onto the main cross town highway a couple of years ago. Morning rush hour was brought to a halt.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Hunting an aggressive Moose can be extremely challenging, but patience is rewarded.


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Just validating fit on components before ordering PCBs...
    SpaceClaim_pgPsgebEWT.png SpaceClaim_WkmEb3mjgf.png
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Just validating fit on components before ordering PCBs...
    SpaceClaim_pgPsgebEWT.png SpaceClaim_WkmEb3mjgf.png
    What a great idea!

    Especially useful for those with limited desktop space - and it looks very cool.


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    What a great idea!

    Especially useful for those with limited desktop space - and it looks very cool.
    Thanks.. this is the trim version obviously. Working on Quadrant version also...

    SpaceClaim_wvO1AlFIeE.png SpaceClaim_ScMpaNI0r7.png
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    OK, so shell is completed and everything fits together great. All 3D printed plastic, except for a small piece of plywood in the clamp assy to give it some strength. Working on new PCBs for them, but will assemble some of the quadrant version and some of the trim version for immediate pre-production sales.

    IMG_20210714_092504563_compress48.jpg IMG_20210714_092516859_compress91.jpg
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Report on the Gear-Falcon Trim Box: 5 Stars!

    Purchased online July 6th using PayPal. Easy peasy.

    Received email notification from Etsy one hour later that order was shipped!!!

    Received continuous updates from Etsy and Canada Post app of shipping status.

    Canada Post moose-drawn wagon delivered trim box one week later!

    Trim box well packaged - double boxed with air pillow packing.

    Truly plug ‘n play. Plugged into USB hub. No calibration required.

    Assigned axis ingame for elevator, rudder, ailerons. Easy peasy.

    Rubber feet firmly anchor trim box to my desk surface. No slipping.

    Product EXACTLY as advertised. Quality construction.

    Finally have a trim control that I really like. Allows for fine trim adjustments easily, even in Spitfires for hands off flying. Visual centering indicators for all three axis are accurate - showing 50% deflection according to both the Windows 10 USB Controller app and the ingame axis progress bars in the Controls GUI.

    I’m still playing with the four rotary switches/push buttons on the front of the trim box. For single engine fighters I’m using them to adjust the gunsight. For bombers I think I’ll use them to adjust the bombsight and bomb settings.

    Very pleased and recommend highly.

    Here’s a few pics to illustrate the trim box:





    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; Jul-17-2021 at 12:12.


    HP Omen Laptop 15, AMD Ryzen 5 5600H 16 GB DDR4 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU 6 GB VRAM Win 11 64 bit 22H2 (KB5020044), Nvidia GeForce Driver ver 527.56, TrackIR 5, Gear Falcon Trim Box, Gear Falcon Throttle Quadrant, TM16000 joystick, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Quadrant, Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Snapper, your model is left pattern correct?
    Visit the Robert Mölders Facebook Group ( Left-click on the red link on the left to open the relative page! )
    Visit the Robert Mölders YouTube Channel ( Left-click on the red link on the left to open the relative page! )
    *Important Note: You can also open the Robert Mölders Facebook Group page by clicking directly on my signature image


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders View Post
    Snapper, your model is left pattern correct?
    Nope, it’s “right encoder green”.

    697C7663-3A47-47F1-BAB6-7BBEE403EA07.png


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    VR: None
    Installation path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz

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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders View Post
    Snapper, your model is left pattern correct?
    I know the description is a little confusing. If you are right-handed, and use your right hand to hold the joystick, you will want the trim controller on the left, so it is considered a right-hander version. Vice-versa for the the Left-hander version, where the trim will sit on the right side to be controlled by your right hand. If you pull down the "Pattern" menu in Etsy it will show you a picture of the one you are ordering, so it is clear which one you want, regardless of the description.
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Report on the Gear-Falcon Trim Box: 5 Stars!

    Purchased online July 6th using PayPal. Easy peasy.

    Received email notification from Etsy one hour later that order was shipped!!!

    Received continuous updates from Etsy and Canada Post app of shipping status.

    Canada Post moose-drawn wagon delivered trim box one week later!

    Trim box well packaged - double boxed with air pillow packing.

    Truly plug ‘n play. Plugged into USB hub. No calibration required.

    Assigned axis ingame for elevator, rudder, ailerons. Easy peasy.

    Rubber feet firmly anchor trim box to my desk surface. No slipping.

    Product EXACTLY as advertised. Quality construction.

    Finally have a trim control that I really like. Allows for fine trim adjustments easily, even in Spitfires for hands off flying. Visual centering indicators for all three axis are accurate - showing 50% deflection according to both the Windows 10 USB Controller app and the ingame axis progress bars in the Controls GUI.

    I’m still playing with the four rotary switches/push buttons on the front of the trim box. For single engine fighters I’m using them to adjust the gunsight. For bombers I think I’ll use them to adjust the bombsight and bomb settings.

    Very pleased and recommend highly.

    Here’s a few pics to illustrate the trim box:





    Thanks for the great review Snapper. I really appreciate the feedback.

    Do you find the encoders hard to manipulate, as they are pretty close together? I am thinking of going to only 3 encoders to make them easier to access. Also, do you have a use for the push-button switch on the encoders? I may change to an encoder without the switch.

    Regards,

    Kendy
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
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    1 TB SSD
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    Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank

    "Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf

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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Thanks for the great review Snapper. I really appreciate the feedback.

    Do you find the encoders hard to manipulate, as they are pretty close together? I am thinking of going to only 3 encoders to make them easier to access. Also, do you have a use for the push-button switch on the encoders? I may switch to an encoder without the switch.

    Regards,

    Kendy
    The four encoders are just fine, and I’ve got large hands and I’m also pretty hamfisted. Yesterday I programmed the pushbuttons for different views while movie-making. I’d leave the encoder set up just as they are.

    Feature suggestion: a palm rest. While flying and maneuvering my left hand is continuously manipulating the trim wheels, especially during dogfighting so I’m not wrestling with my joystick. (Hmm, that doesn’t sound good...). Even just a body extension on the left side might be handy. I may fashion a rough palm rest from a 2”x4” to see if that might work. Not a major necessity by any chance. The trim box is great just as it is.


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    The four encoders are just fine, and I’ve got large hands and I’m also pretty hamfisted. Yesterday I programmed the pushbuttons for different views while movie-making. I’d leave the encoder set up just as they are.

    Feature suggestion: a palm rest. While flying and maneuvering my left hand is continuously manipulating the trim wheels, especially during dogfighting so I’m not wrestling with my joystick. (Hmm, that doesn’t sound good...). Even just a body extension on the left side might be handy. I may fashion a rough palm rest from a 2”x4” to see if that might work. Not a major necessity by any chance. The trim box is great just as it is.
    I may leave the palm rest to the customer... the enclosure itself as-is takes over 8 hours for the top and 4 hours for the base to print (they need to be STURDY!). And then of course all the other parts for the trim wheels at about 3 hours each, so that comes to 22 hours of printer time.
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    I may leave the palm rest to the customer... the enclosure itself as-is takes over 8 hours for the top and 4 hours for the base to print (they need to be STURDY!). And then of course all the other parts for the trim wheels at about 3 hours each, so that comes to 22 hours of printer time.
    Oooo, fair enough.

    What I LOVE about the trim wheels is the fine, precision control they afford when adjusting trim. I have tried various means to adjust trim using the axis assignments, but up ‘til now I’ve found the levers (CH Quadrant) and rotary controls (TM Cougar Throttle) were way, way too coarse. Especially in a dogfight when you’re trying to keep your eyes on your adversary and your over-trimming and having to constantly correct. Not good.

    Yesterday on the TWC Server I found if I held my joystick steady I could adjust my gunsight ever-so-slightly using the Gear-Falcon trim to bring the crosshairs PRECISELY as I approached my 109 target from behind and below. It was a Eureka Moment.


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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Oooo, fair enough.

    What I LOVE about the trim wheels is the fine, precision control they afford when adjusting trim. I have tried various means to adjust trim using the axis assignments, but up ‘til now I’ve found the levers (CH Quadrant) and rotary controls (TM Cougar Throttle) were way, way too coarse. Especially in a dogfight when you’re trying to keep your eyes on your adversary and your over-trimming and having to constantly correct. Not good.

    Yesterday on the TWC Server I found if I held my joystick steady I could adjust my gunsight ever-so-slightly using the Gear-Falcon trim to bring the crosshairs PRECISELY as I approached my 109 target from behind and below. It was a Eureka Moment.
    Wait until you get all your controls shot out and have to land with trim alone! This will definitely make that easier.
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Just a suggestion. I've read that it has rubber feet to keep it steady. Maybe you can add also 2 metal threads below the base so if you want to bolt it to a table you can do it very easily ( like on the T 16000 for example )

    Metal threads I mean: https://www.wish.com/product/587dc97..._BwE&share=web

    Look from minute 4:30 here as reference to see what I mean:

    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Jul-18-2021 at 18:15.
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders View Post
    Just a suggestion. I've read that it has rubber feet to keep it steady. Maybe you can add also 2 metal threads below the base so if you want to bolt it to a table you can do it very easily ( like on the T 16000 for example )

    Metal threads I mean: https://www.wish.com/product/587dc97..._BwE&share=web

    Look from minute 4:30 here as reference to see what I mean:

    That would work.

    What I found was that the trim wheels turn easily, so there is very little latitudinal force exerted on the unit to overcome the friction of the rubber feet, so there is no slippage. Joysticks are another matter, especially lighter ones like the TM16000. This is an excellent stick, but I did find a tendency for it to slip around with robust maneuvers. I used a soft rubber cupboard liner to set the TM16000 on which kept it adequately anchored. (I now use the TM16000 for turret duty in the Wellingtons). I also use the soft rubber liners for my Warthog throttle which works well.

    My Warthog joystick with 10 cm extension was a whole different kettle of fish. I bolted its flanged baseplate securely to my heavy subwoofer which sits directly in front of me between my legs. That sucker ain’t movin’ for nobody! (Mrs Snapper rarely comes down into our rec room anymore for some reason.....).

    The trim box’s soft rubber feet work great for me. I had been prepared to use velcro tape to secure the trim box to my desk, but it wasn’t necessary.



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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    I need to fix it firmly otherwise the ball of fur with 4 legs lurking around for the house will probably decide to check what is the taste of that nice rudder trim box LOL ( Or as per normal during one of his " delicate runs " he will throw everything on the ground ).
    He has the same " delicatessen " of a panzer V

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post

    The trim box’s soft rubber feet work great for me. I had been prepared to use velcro tape to secure the trim box to my desk, but it wasn’t necessary.
    Yep in the worst case I'll probably adopt the same solution

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  41. #30
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    Re: Prototypes for some new products

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Also, do you have a use for the push-button switch on the encoders? I may change to an encoder without the switch.
    Please keep this as an option. I was about to order when I saw your plans for the clampable version. That will work much better for my setup.

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