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Thread: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Morning Pete. I vaguely remember our discussion now, from 2019. Where we did a process of elimination on what the code "might" be.

    Who is to say VY-T isn't the code? There appears to be no official record. Even the August 1940 Squadron diary does not say what Code, nor Paddy Hemingway's Flying Log Book.

    So, there is no official record. But you and I weeded out the ones it couldn't be. Even the experts don't know what it was otherwise they wouldn't be asking me.

    I will let Brian (acting on behalf of his 103 year old father) know. As always I will let you know what they say. Thanks again for your help Pete.

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Pete,

    Paddy Hemingway has given me permission to post the following:

    His flying logbook for part of August:



    Look at the entry for 18th August V7249 - Shot down by Ju88. Bailed Out.
    Look at the entry for 26th August P3966 - Shot down in flames by Me109. This is the one they want to restore to flying condition.

    His Logbook, Medal Set & Spadegrip from P3966 (excavated at the wreck site)


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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    85 Sqn 'A' Flight - August 1940

    What I have dug up so for for 'A' Flight. Most of it lifted from their Squadron Diary. Aircraft Code (but no serial numbers provided), and who flew what througout the month.

    Squadron Leader Townsend favoured VY-Q P3166 but did fly other codes (probably when his Hurricane was out of service). You will notice most other pilots swapped/changed aircraft as dictated by circumstances

    I don't know how to format this list properly, so I haved BOLDED the aircraft serial numbers. If anyone can fill in the gaps for 'A' Flt, please do.

    VY-A Sgt Evans - P/O Hodgson - P/O Marshall - P/O Worrall - Sgt Allgood - P/O English - Sgt Ellis - F/Lt Hamilton
    VY-B Sgt Evans - P/O Worrall - P/O Marshall - Sgt Howes - P/O English - Sgt Ellis
    VY-D F/Lt Hamilton - P/O Marshall - Sgt Ellis - P/O Hodgson - P/O Worrall
    VY-E Sgt Evans - F/O Stephenson - F/Lt Hamilton - S/Ldr Townsend - P/O Worrall - P/O Marshall - Sgt Allgood – Sgt Ellis - P/O Hodgson
    VY-F P2716 P/O English - P/O Worrall - Sgt Allgood - S/Ldr Townsend - Sgt Ellis - P/O Hodgson - P/O Marshall - Sgt Hampshire - Sgt Evans - F/Lt Hamilton - Sgt Howes
    VY-G P3961 P/O English - F/Lt Hamilton - P/O Hodgson - Sgt Hampshire - P/O Worrall - P/O Allard
    VY-H P3722 Sgt Evans - S/Ldr Townsend - F/Lt Hamilton - P/O Marshall - Sgt Allgood - P/O Hodgson - P/O Allard
    VY-J F/Sgt Allard - F/O Stephenson - P/O Worrall - Sgt Evans - Sgt Allgood - P/O Marshall
    VY-K P3408 Sgt Howes - P/O Marshall - F/Sgt Allard - F/O Stephenson - P/O Hodgson - Sgt Ellis - F/Lt Hamilton - P/O Worrall - Sgt Allgood
    VY-L V6623 P/O Hodgson - P/O Worrall - Sgt Ellis - S/Ldr Townsend - Sgt Evans - Sgt Hampshire - Sgt Allgood - F/Lt Hamilton - Sgt Howes - P/O Marshall - P/O Allard
    VY-M V7240 Sgt Howes - F/Sgt Allard - Sgt Ellis - P/O Hodgson - Sgt Evans - P/O English - S/Ldr Townsend
    VY-P P/O Marshall
    VY-Q P3166 S/Ldr Townsend - Sgt Howes - F/S Allard - Sgt Ellis - Sgt Hampshire - P/O Worrall
    VY-S P/O Marshall
    VY-V Sgt Booth
    VY-W Sgt Howes - Sgt Ellis - P/O Marshall - F/Sgt Allard - Sgt Evans - P/O Worrall - P/O Hodgson

    VY-L V6623 Lost 29/8 F/Lt Hamilton

    From 16 Aug 40 - F/Sgt Allard becomes P/O Allard

    In the above quoted Serial No’s VY-H (P3722) is NOT listed for 85 Sqn in the RAF Register series. So this is suspect.

    'B' Flight to follow .....

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    85 Sqn 'B' Flight

    Unused Squadron Codes:

    VY-C
    VY-I
    VY-N
    VY-T
    VY-U V6611 - Not logged in the Diary
    VY-X V6760 - Not logged in the Diary
    VY-Y

    As can be seen ladies and gentlemen, there are more aircraft/serial numbers than squadron letters available!

    VY-? Crashed on Landing 24 Aug L1933 P/O Lewis - F/O Hemingway - Sgt Walker-Smith - P/O Lockhart
    VY-O L2071 Sgt Webster - P/O Lewis - Sgt Deacon - Sgt Walker-Smith - Sgt Booth - P/O Lockhart - P/O Hemingway - P/O Worrall

    VY-P? N2476 F/O Marshall (A.Flt) - F/Lt Lee - Sgt Webster - Sgt Rust - P/O Lewis - Sgt Booth
    VY-? N2645 Sgt Goodman - Sgt Booth - P/O Worrall - Sgt Walker-Smith

    VY-R Lost 18 Aug P2923 F/Lt Lee
    VY-? P2645 Sgt Deacon - P/O Lockhart
    VY-? P2805 P/O Lockhart
    VY-? P2879 P/O Lewis - P/O Lockhart - Sgt Walker-Smith - Sgt Booth - P/O Worrall
    VY-Z P3150 F/O Gowers - F/O Woods-Scawen - Sgt Rust - Sgt Webster - Sgt Booth
    VY-? P3151 P/O Lewis
    VY-? P3409 Sgt Webster - Sgt Walker-Smith - P/O Lockhart - Sgt Booth - Sgt Deacon
    VY-? P3467 Sgt Rust - F/O Gowers - P/O Lockhart - Sgt Booth - Sgt Walker-Smith
    VY-? P3966 F/O Gowers - Sgt Rust - F/O Woods-Scawen - F/O Hemingway
    VY-? P7412 P/O Lewis

    VY-? V6581 P/O Worrall
    VY-? P/O H-Bail 18/8 V7249 P/O Hemingway - Sgt Deacon - F/Lt Lee - Sgt Booth - Sgt Walker-Smith
    VY-? V7343 F/O Gowers
    VY-? V7349 F/O Hemingway
    VY-? V7350 Sgt Goodman - Sgt Walker-Smith

    In the above quoted serial numbers P2645, P2805 & P7412 are NOT listed for 85 Sqn in the RAF Register serials, but ARE listed in the official 85 Squadron Diary (B Flight) for August 1940 So where did these come from?

    The investigation continues!
    Last edited by Nails; Jul-28-2022 at 14:04.

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Hello Dave,
    Thanks for your detailed and helpful listing of hurricanes/serial numbers/aircraft letters and pilots of No 85 Squadron. I know how time consuming it is to track down these historical details.
    It is very much in line with my information on the aircraft of 85 Sqn.

    Here are a few more findings:

    N2645 VY-V
    P3151 VY-Y
    P2879 VY-N (most likely)
    P2827 VY-A
    P2673 VY-E
    P3649 VY-D
    P2722 VY-H (on your list as P3722 (probably a typo)
    P2557 VY-C
    P3895 VY-B
    P7412 VY-? is surely V7412 (probably a typo)

    One assumes what is seen in this picture Hurricane VY-N P2879.




    Famous Picture of a Hurricane of No 85 Sqn. P2822, VY-H






    Peter LARRY
    Last edited by LARRY69; Aug-07-2022 at 14:59.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY69 View Post

    P2822 VY-H (on your list as P3722 (probably a typo)

    Famous Picture of a Hurricane of No 85 Sqn. P2822, VY-H



    Peter LARRY
    Thanks for that Pete. I will update my list. You are right though. It is hard work.

    With regards P2822 VY-H. If you look over that airman's shoulder (the one with the screwdriver). Those last 3 digits look like 722 not 822? I also thought to myself is the first digit (which is obscured) the start of a 3 or a 2!

    Thanks again shipmate.

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    If a pilot was shot down and the aircraft destroyed. Did the replacement aircraft take on the squadron letter of the one destroyed - even though (obviously) the aircraft serial number would be different?

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Difficult to say. If the situation allowed it, this would have been the aim. But I don't think the airfields in the south-east of England were suitable for a proper operation in the period between June and October 1940. Too many factors hindered this. Aircraft were shot down, missing, damaged, repaired, temporarily inoperable.
    To understand how short-lived a fighter's fate could be in 1940, see the story of Spitfire X4110 of No 602 Sqn. Arguably the shortest life span of any aircraft during the Battle of Britain. The Spitfire was in operational service for about 1 hour and already had to be written off. It never carried squadron letters or individual radio call signs.



    here the whole story:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/GrRxX

    Peter LARRY
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Don't know if you have these or not Pete. But here are all the Hurricane Serial Numbers allocated to 85 Sqn.


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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Thanks. No haven`t. Very useful.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Even those serial numbers allocated are not accurate?

    Look at the Squadron Diary for 'B' Flight 2nd August 1940.

    P2645 Pilot Officer Deacon - That Serial Number does not appear in the list. So was this a replacement Hurricane? Or where did it come from? I can't see the entry in the diary being a typo, can you?

    Last edited by Nails; Jul-29-2022 at 13:47. Reason: Amended Date of Log

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    This is a typical typo. There never was a Hurricane with the s/n P2645. You won't find P2645 in the official lists of manufactured aircrafts. But if you go through the list of 85 Sqn Hurricanes, you will find the s/n N2645. Most likely P/O Deacon flew Hurricane N2645.
    The Hurricanes were delivered in patches from various factories. The first Hurricanes Mk 1 were the L-series. Everything was still in order then. But with the N,P,R,V,W series and their four-digit numbers, it is easy for confusion and errors to creep in.
    Last edited by LARRY69; Jul-29-2022 at 14:35.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Paddy Hemingway on his 103rd Birthday (17th July 2022). The last surviving RAF Battle of Britain pilot.


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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Couple of developments since my last post.

    The Officers Mess have (through me) invited Brian Hemingway to the BoB Dinner on the 15th Sep. He is staying here at my place. Don't want him driving home after having a skinfull.

    He is guest of honour and will be representing his father. Great stuff. Really honoured.

    FAO: Pete Larry

    Pete, do you have a VY-T / P3966 skin. I am going to get Brian to fly Cliffs in my own Hurricane thingy-me-bob. Be great if we can put him in his dads aircraft!

    FAO: ATAG Moderators

    I am going to put this post in the other thread I had going about Paddy Hemmingway, so Pete doesn't miss it. Please delete if you feel the need. TIA

    ATAG ADMIN: We are pleased and honoured that you are sharing this with us here on the ATAG Forum. Post away wherever you wish - the Forum is yours. Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you. Best wishes to you and Brian and eternal thanks to Paddy Hemingway from all of us in the ATAG Community.

    Snapper
    Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; Aug-25-2022 at 07:45.

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Quote Originally Posted by Nails View Post

    FAO: Pete Larry

    Pete, do you have a VY-T / P3966 skin. I am going to get Brian to fly Cliffs in my own Hurricane thingy-me-bob. Be great if we can put him in his dads aircraft!
    Here it is:

    No 85 Squadron VY-T P3966, Debden July 1940, Hurricane Mk 1 Skin:

    https://www.mediafire.com/file/th47r...+1940.JPG/file

    Hey, would be realy a great Honour to see Brian "flying" this kite!!! Fingercross

    Don`t forget take a photo and share with us.

    Thanks

    Peter
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY69 View Post
    Here it is:

    No 85 Squadron VY-T P3966, Debden July 1940, Hurricane Mk 1 Skin:

    https://www.mediafire.com/file/th47r...+1940.JPG/file

    Hey, would be realy a great Honour to see Brian "flying" this kite!!! Fingercross

    Don`t forget take a photo and share with us.

    Thanks

    Peter
    Hi Pete & Snapper,

    Pete. Perfect (Peter Perfect)? Thanks so much for the skin/paint. I will trial it this weekend.

    I've been informed that Brian will not be able to get himself in/out of my Hurricane Simpit/Bucket seat. So this weekend I am going to work on a more simplified Simpit. Just for Brian. I will take a pic and post once done.

    I am having to put away my lifetimes work (THAT Hurricane) because of space constraints.

    Snapper (and TF Members) - Thank you for those very kind words. I think we all feel the same way. I will answer your PM later. But I think we have overwhelmed Brian, and don't think we will have time on the 15/16th Sep. I am definately going to be run ragged. However, maybe we could arrange the Paddy Hemingway Day later in the year - The BoB did not actually end (officially) until the 31st October. That way, we all get a bit more time to sort it out. But I sincerely thank ATAG/TF for organising it. S!

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Quote Originally Posted by Nails View Post
    Hi Pete & Snapper,

    Snapper (and TF Members) - Thank you for those very kind words. I think we all feel the same way. I will answer your PM later. But I think we have overwhelmed Brian, and don't think we will have time on the 15/16th Sep. I am definately going to be run ragged. However, maybe we could arrange the Paddy Hemingway Day later in the year - The BoB did not actually end (officially) until the 31st October. That way, we all get a bit more time to sort it out. But I sincerely thank ATAG/TF for organising it. S!

    Hi Nails,

    No worries whatsoever! The important thing is that you have quality time with Brian. We can certainly pick a time later as you suggested. Let Brian know that you have a bunch of crazy mates around the world that wish he and his Dad the very best. Hope you can sneak a pic or two of the RAF dinner!

    Cheers and warmest regards!

    Snapper


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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Hi Nails,

    No worries whatsoever! The important thing is that you have quality time with Brian. We can certainly pick a time later as you suggested. Let Brian know that you have a bunch of crazy mates around the world that wish he and his Dad the very best. Hope you can sneak a pic or two of the RAF dinner!

    Cheers and warmest regards!

    Snapper
    Ahoy Snapper. Thanks for the reply.

    Paddy Hemingway is aware of all those groups that keeps that summer of 1940 alive. He still insists he "was doing his job". One of "The Few" that stepped up to the plate, and did their duty. He also says that if you want luck "Be Irish".

    Not sure if you are all aware, but there is a petition to get him knighted (been out for a couple of years - obiously not got enough votes yet). So please feel free to add your voice. HERE.

    My own bright idea (if I had the time) was just to get Brian in the air, in his dads Hurricane (thanks Pete - again). Flying an uncomplicated single offline mission in Cliffs (Blitz). I don't think I am going to get time on the 15th. I am usually on site about 0900, ready to set up. The function doesn't finish (usually) until about 0200 the following day. So, the entire day is me doing MY duty and taking people back in time, looking at genuine bits & bobs.

    Where I work - RAF Rudloe Manor - Is the old RAF Box. This was 10 Group HQ during the Battle of Britain. Commanded by Air Vice Marshal Sir Quintin Brand, 10 Group supported 11 Group in the Battle of Britain by rotating squadrons, providing additional fighter support when needed, and supplying additional pilots.

    In 2019, the last Battle of Britain Dinner I attended (before COVID struck) the 10 Group Boards were located in the tunnels (RAF Rudloe Manor/Box used to be an underground Nuclear Bunker), and were displayed behind my aluminim Spitfire (on a rotating mirrored table). I had to remind the comittee what their locations role was during the BoB - No one knew.



    Cliffs in the past was played on two overhead projector screens (this is BOTE being played on one of the screens, while the guests were eating - copyright - Bonkin ACG):



    Tables are setup thus:





    Once the guest of honour has been received, we have a Spitfire flypast (I've asked on numerous occasions for the Hurricane - met with blank stares) and on completion, they all sit down to dine. Unfortunately one cannot enter, even to take photo's.

    I am displaying my own modest collection of BoB memorabilia again this year, and usually once the display is setup I stay with it. If anything goes missing, it can't be replaced. So I just look after it, for the whole 24 hours.

    Do you see the instruments in this Hurricane instrument panel. Try and get any of the switches/instruments - good luck. Everyone of them (to me) is priceless. Paddy Hemingway felt right at home seeing this!



    I shall keep everyone posted, leading up to the 15th. Remember to vote for his knighthood before it is too late everyone HERE. Thanks.

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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Petition signed! I can't think of a more worthy cause.



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    Re: Halycon Days - CoD - ACG - But Peter Larry Screenshots

    Gentlemen. I received sad (but not unexpected news, considering yesteredays events here in the UK).

    ALL official military functions have been cancelled next week, due to the death of HM Queen Elizabeth II (it's the mourning week, and the higher ups have said no). This includes next Thursdays BoB Mess Dinner. As far as I know, this will not be rescheduled.

    Sorry everyone.

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