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Thread: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

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    IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Greetings pilots! New update for IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk is here! This update brings in a bunch of changes, new missions, number of bufixes and some more skin updates!

    As usual, we'd like to thank all of our loyal fans who share their feedback in our Steam Forums. Thank you for your support!

    Read the full changelog below:

    General Changes / Updates:
    Aircraft now have a minimum fuel limit that cannot be gone below.
    Various corrections in Italian localization
    Fresh translation: Getting Started and Troubleshooting Guide - Russian.pdf

    New missions:
    Added new Blitz single mission Solent Skirmishes with five playable flights.
    Added new Tobruk single mission As Above, So Below with four playable flights.
    Added new Tobruk single mission Dawn over the Desert with five playable flights.

    Fixes:
    Fixed: BLITZ only German campaign required part Tobruk
    Fixes: Campaign Desert Hawks: in missions 8 and 9, when the player led two flights of Kittyhawks (8 aircraft), the player’s formation was reduced to 4 Kittyhawks, and a flight of four Tomahawks performing the same mission was added. This was done to strike a balance between accurately depicting No. 3 SQN’s equipment (only a single Kittyhawk joined the squadron on 4/12/1941) and giving the player a flight to support them in combat. In missions 3, 7, and 10, ground attackers have been set to fly at full speed during their attack runs. Mission 6 altitude has been changed to 22,000ft.
    Fixes: Campaign Desert Hawks, Eagles over Tobruk, On Ne Passé Pas, and Rising from the Ashes: formations of aircraft that use the imperial system have had their speed and altitude revised to better reflect their instruments.
    Fixes: Campaign Rats over Tobruk: bombs removed from aircraft that do not need them.
    Fixes: Campaign Adler Angriff: fixed a mistake that resulted in players requiring Tobruk to play the first mission. Our apologies for this oversight.
    Fixes: Campaign Gravity is my friend, Operta Aperta 1940-41, Rats over Tobruk. Tempesta sull'Africa, and The Blue Wellingtons, 1940-41: bombs removed from aircraft that do not need them.
    Fixes: A Busy Morning, Aerial Crusade, Aftershocks, Attack of the Kiwi, Attack of the Eagles, August Attrition, Battle Goes On, Corpo Aereo Italiano, Corpo Aereo Italiano II, Dusk Raid, Kanalkampf, No Respite, Old and the New, and Royal Rodeo have had the speed and altitude of multiple formations modified in order to improve variety in the situations encountered in missions. Formations of aircraft that use the imperial system have had their speed and altitude revised to better reflect their instruments. Slides and briefings have been updated to match, as well as to provide more information to aircraft performing radar-guided interception.

    Skin Changes / Updates:
    Kittyhawk Mk.IA (all variants) skin TFS Kittyhawk b05 CVO.jpg updated with historically accurate serial number.
    Added skin JG27_3_Marseille 12.6.1942.jpg to all Bf-109 F-4/trop variants so that victory markings are accurate in the mission As Above, So Below.
    Updated skin JG27_3_Marseille 7.12.1941.jpg to show correct victory tally.

    Update 5022.jpg

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Thanks again to TFS for their relentless efforts!
    I'm sure especially the single player community will appreciate the constant care about missions and campaigns.

    But: "Aircraft now have a minimum fuel limit that cannot be gone below."
    What a pity. And it won't stop him whining.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    "Aircraft now have a minimum fuel limit that cannot be gone below"

    OK, I will bite.... what does this mean?

    My first thought was that some of the aircraft models will fly around on empty, but never saw that.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    I think it means blue team are whining that Beaufighters and Blennies run low fuel,

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    That minimum fuel limit is seriously dumb especially for bombers and similar 2 engine aircraft you can fly for an hour on 20%. Many times I have delivered plenty of bombs to England on 20% fuel in Ju88 or He111.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    As we've experienced on prior runs 25% fuel in a Wellington provides 3 hours running with a safety margin on return. I've typically given my Blenheim / Wellington 20% depending on the mission. The fuel weight lost provides a little more maneuverability to these otherwise underdog aircraft. Hardly putting adversaries at any disadvantage.

    Daz
    Last edited by Dazza; Jun-12-2021 at 15:40.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Fuel limits would be better controlled at the server level. It's nice to be able to set a low fuel level when flying on my own and do aerobatics and barnstorming.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Some players specialize in loading 10% fuel (or less) on aircraft such as the Beaufighter, Ju-88, Blenheim, etc.

    This would never occur in the real life situation... typically the Beau would load 100% fuel for almost all situations. That we allow less is a concession.

    The result of a player loading 10% fuel is unrealistic levels of performance from types like the Beaufighter... or even 109's or Spitfires when players load 10% and then fly till they die.

    The changes level the playing field and provide a more realistic battlefield environment... and less complaints from players describing particular plane types as "UFO's", etc.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    General Changes / Updates:
    Aircraft now have a minimum fuel limit that cannot be gone below.
    LOL, this broken some of my custom missions, where is need "accidents" happens.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Jun-13-2021 at 22:48.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Some players specialize in loading 10% fuel (or less) on aircraft such as the Beaufighter, Ju-88, Blenheim, etc.

    This would never occur in the real life situation... typically the Beau would load 100% fuel for almost all situations. That we allow less is a concession.

    The result of a player loading 10% fuel is unrealistic levels of performance from types like the Beaufighter... or even 109's or Spitfires when players load 10% and then fly till they die.

    The changes level the playing field and provide a more realistic battlefield environment... and less complaints from players describing particular plane types as "UFO's", etc.


    The disparity in performance between the airframes and a lack of a rear gunner even in a 1C makes the Beau nothing but a sitting duck, maybe putting a gun in the back before more people abandon the plane would be more sensible than pandering the the whiners!
    Last edited by Gromit; Jun-14-2021 at 10:29.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
    The disparity in performance between the airframes and a lack of a rear gunner even in a 1C makes the Beau nothing but a sitting duck, maybe putting a gun in the back before more people abandon the plane would be more sensible than pandering the the whiners!
    It is cerrtainly not a sitting duck - even compared to single engine fighters.
    The change in fuel quantitiy doesn't change it's competitiveness at sealevel by much.

    A late Beauf with 25% fuel can easily turn into the a fully loaded 109 E-4/N, maybe it can't sustain it for more then two cycles.
    I've tested with another chap using 400 kg fuel for the Beauf late and a fully loaded E-4/N and the Beauf would hold atleast two or more cycles and could easily shoot me down before the update. I've got a prove and I'm not a rookie to fly the E-4/N.
    Now with this update I guess you got only 100 Kg higher with 25%, maybe add another 100kg with some additional weight of this update. That's only 100 kg weight additionaly for each engine to hold since my test.
    Since the plane is heavy already as it's a twin fighter, the loss of perfomance with that little additional weight to the total weight is probably marginally.

    This is a guess - but I think the late Beauf is probably still outturning atleast the Macchi and F-2 at full weights at sealevel with 25%, I haven't tested but the F4 also feels heavier to me than the Emils and could also outturned by a late Beauf with 25%.
    The Bf 110 fails agains both early and late Beauf using similar fuel loads. I'd love to test how a fully loaded early or late Beauf would turn against a Bf 110 with 400Kg.
    Feel free to be enlightend and test it with me, also feel free to let me test a fully loaded Macchi and F-2 against a late Beauf at 25%.

    My information above does not leave room for any interpretation of my bias and if I think the Beauf is overperforming or not and should be seen as pure information.
    Last edited by Tibsun; Jun-14-2021 at 14:15.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Some players specialize in loading 10% fuel (or less) on aircraft such as the Beaufighter, Ju-88, Blenheim, etc.

    This would never occur in the real life situation... typically the Beau would load 100% fuel for almost all situations. That we allow less is a concession.

    The result of a player loading 10% fuel is unrealistic levels of performance from types like the Beaufighter... or even 109's or Spitfires when players load 10% and then fly till they die.

    The changes level the playing field and provide a more realistic battlefield environment... and less complaints from players describing particular plane types as "UFO's", etc.
    Maybe next patch the auto-pilot could be removed from the Blennies as well.
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibsun View Post
    It is cerrtainly not a sitting duck - even compared to single engine fighters.
    The change in fuel quantitiy doesn't change it's competitiveness at sealevel by much.

    A late Beauf with 25% fuel can easily turn into the a fully loaded 109 E-4/N, maybe it can't sustain it for more then two cycles.
    I've tested with another chap using 400 kg fuel for the Beauf late and a fully loaded E-4/N and the Beauf would hold atleast two or more cycles and could easily shoot me down before the update. I've got a prove and I'm not a rookie to fly the E-4/N.
    Now with this update I guess you got only 100 Kg higher with 25%, maybe add another 100kg with some additional weight of this update. That's only 100 kg weight additionaly for each engine to hold since my test.
    Since the plane is heavy already as it's a twin fighter, the loss of perfomance with that little additional weight to the total weight is probably marginally.

    This is a guess - but I think the late Beauf is probably still outturning atleast the Macchi and F-2 at full weights at sealevel with 25%, I haven't tested but the F4 also feels heavier to me than the Emils and could also outturned by a late Beauf with 25%.
    The Bf 110 fails agains both early and late Beauf using similar fuel loads. I'd love to test how a fully loaded early or late Beauf would turn against a Bf 110 with 400Kg.
    Feel free to be enlightend and test it with me, also feel free to let me test a fully loaded Macchi and F-2 against a late Beauf at 25%.

    My information above does not leave room for any interpretation of my bias and if I think the Beauf is overperforming or not and should be seen as pure information.
    Tibbs the 109's just dive, spray and pull up zooming back to the perch, the beau loses controls regularly, it's just a big fat target, if it had a rear gunner then maybe theres room for adjustment but noone wants to be a sitting duck for other players stats.

    There are few enough players online as it is, do the blue team want an empty server to play on , this seems to me to be very counterproductive when you have hardly any red team to play against as it is.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Some players specialize in loading 10% fuel (or less) on aircraft such as the Beaufighter, Ju-88, Blenheim, etc.

    This would never occur in the real life situation... typically the Beau would load 100% fuel for almost all situations. That we allow less is a concession.

    The result of a player loading 10% fuel is unrealistic levels of performance from types like the Beaufighter... or even 109's or Spitfires when players load 10% and then fly till they die.

    The changes level the playing field and provide a more realistic battlefield environment... and less complaints from players describing particular plane types as "UFO's", etc.
    Some players specialize in using 1 second fuses as well. A concession that only the red team has.
    Make sure you remove anything but 11 second fuses from anyone who would contemplate taking a blennie. We can't have any one trick pony 109 drivers being unrealistically
    destroyed by blennies on an un-level playing field. 109's should be able to "dominate the fight" every time.
    By the Blue, for the Blue, and through the Blue = a more realistic battlefield environment.
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    What have the fuel limits been set to?

    I do agree that while maybe not realistic, for the sake of certain mission building and other uses, it should not be a hard limit. What most of the multiplayer missions are set up like are not really historically accurate anyway in all aspects, so this change doesn't make a ton of sense, especially since it's available for both sides. Does the Beau in particular have a bigger advantage compared to say the 110?

    I haven't flown in a while so I don't really know the background of this change, just curious as if it is for a MP balancing reason I am not sure if I agree on principle that TF has said in the past they will not tamper with the game for balancing reasons.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibsun View Post
    It is cerrtainly not a sitting duck - even compared to single engine fighters.
    The change in fuel quantitiy doesn't change it's competitiveness at sealevel by much.

    A late Beauf with 25% fuel can easily turn into the a fully loaded 109 E-4/N, maybe it can't sustain it for more then two cycles.
    I've tested with another chap using 400 kg fuel for the Beauf late and a fully loaded E-4/N and the Beauf would hold atleast two or more cycles and could easily shoot me down before the update. I've got a prove and I'm not a rookie to fly the E-4/N.
    Now with this update I guess you got only 100 Kg higher with 25%, maybe add another 100kg with some additional weight of this update. That's only 100 kg weight additionaly for each engine to hold since my test.
    Since the plane is heavy already as it's a twin fighter, the loss of perfomance with that little additional weight to the total weight is probably marginally.

    This is a guess - but I think the late Beauf is probably still outturning atleast the Macchi and F-2 at full weights at sealevel with 25%, I haven't tested but the F4 also feels heavier to me than the Emils and could also outturned by a late Beauf with 25%.
    The Bf 110 fails agains both early and late Beauf using similar fuel loads. I'd love to test how a fully loaded early or late Beauf would turn against a Bf 110 with 400Kg.
    Feel free to be enlightend and test it with me, also feel free to let me test a fully loaded Macchi and F-2 against a late Beauf at 25%.

    My information above does not leave room for any interpretation of my bias and if I think the Beauf is overperforming or not and should be seen as pure information.
    Hi Tibsun,

    I know you did these tests and you are certainly a better pilot as I am.
    But the problem here actually is not the relative performance of one aircraft versus another. This is not the point.

    A 109 pilot (which version ever) engaging a Beaufighter in a turnfight on sealevel did make a lot of mistakes and you had to stage these tests, because you would never get into this situation in game. But again, this is not the point.

    I put a lot of trust in the FMs provided by TFS, because they do tons of research, so I use to work with what I have, without complaining. I never used less than 30% of fuel in a Beau (and I wonder how anyone wants to know that anybody else did) and I never ever tried to use it as a dogfighter. But again, this is not the point.


    The point is that in my humble opinion the game should provide opportunities, not restrictions.
    If the game offers the opportunity to play in a most historical correct environment, that’s fantastic! But this is not saying that playing in a historically correct way is the right way to play it and the only way that should be allowed.

    The game provides opportunities, the customer should be free to use them.

    We all fight Nazis who landed on the Isle of Wight at ‘New Dawn Fades’, we enjoy death races through Derna valley, we do aerobatics (as were done in reality with less than 25% fuel) and fly through hangars, I will rather start to dogfight with an empty Blenny than just to fly level and straight to get shot down, and we try to ‘snargle’ if we get a chance.
    All this may not be historically correct, but it is a lot of fun and I don’t see any point to prevent many customers to have this fun, just because one person feels that his favourite plane should perform much better than it did in reality.

    As said above: I do put a lot of trust in TFS’s work and I go along with what I get.
    So, this will be my final statement on the topic.



    S!

    DerDa

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Can we guys appreciate the fact that we got other updates apart from the minimum fuel. If you have any complaints about it then get your own thread and rant about it, bringing all the negativity here is not nice.
    This could be just a test, if no one likes it can be reverted, give TFS a break and some time to review it.

    We got a new Russian Translation for the Getting Started Guide, in a time record, for Russian speakers, which are many and will also help us grow in the future, Italian corrections, NEW MISSIONS! YES!
    As well as all the fixes which also takes time.

    Also to Pete, great picture there,

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Pattle View Post

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Pattle View Post
    Aircraft now have a minimum fuel limit that cannot be gone below.
    I am not really convinced with this hard coded minimum fuel limitation.
    With my squad, we sometimes train to manage an out of fuel plane by spawing in air with 1% fuel setting.
    This allows us to train ourselves to manage pitch propeler and radiators to glide efficiently to the nearest airfield and to use emergency landing gear system (manual pump, etc..)

    With this limitation we cannot do this anymore...

    I think the fuel limitation should only be set by a server option or the mission file parameters.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by OBT~Mikmak View Post
    I am not really convinced with this hard coded minimum fuel limitation.
    With my squad, we sometimes train to manage an out of fuel plane by spawing in air with 1% fuel setting.
    This allows us to train ourselves to manage pitch propeler and radiators to glide efficiently to the nearest airfield and to use emergency landing gear system (manual pump, etc..)

    With this limitation we cannot do this anymore...

    I think the fuel limitation should only be set by a server option or the mission file parameters.
    You can simply switch off the engine although yes, the weight will be different. However, if you train with more weight, the real scenario will be easier.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    snip
    I said my post does not leave room for interpretation and yet you did.
    It is a information to gromit that isn't a sitting duck even with the fuel restriction, please do not construe never said words.
    I do not endorse the fuel restriction in any way.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    I have plenty of time in a Beaufighter and it is not an easy target. A lot of 109 drivers will not pay attention to the fight and think that you are an easy kill but quite a few times I taught 109s to respect the Beau and four nose mounted hispanos.
    But if you fly right the Beaufighter has no chance against any 109 that is in the game, if you got shot down in a 109 you were either jumped or lost the fight cause you got overconfident.

    Regarding historical accuracy, I'm a pretty sure that if they expected a 90 minutes mission (which is absurdly long time by the online game standards) they would not take the full fuel load just to land with 50% or more fuel left in the tank.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    I am not concerned. I fly my fully loaded G.50, and always happy to take any Beau with any fuel load
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Jun-15-2021 at 13:56.
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    I am not concerned. I fly my fully loaded G.50, and always happy to take any Beau with any fuel load
    Whilst leaving any 25% extra bloated Blennies safe, harmless, and unmolested ............ at least until after their bombs have been dropped.
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by palker View Post
    I have plenty of time in a Beaufighter and it is not an easy target. A lot of 109 drivers will not pay attention to the fight and think that you are an easy kill but quite a few times I taught 109s to respect the Beau and four nose mounted hispanos.
    But if you fly right the Beaufighter has no chance against any 109 that is in the game, if you got shot down in a 109 you were either jumped or lost the fight cause you got overconfident.

    Regarding historical accuracy, I'm a pretty sure that if they expected a 90 minutes mission (which is absurdly long time by the online game standards) they would not take the full fuel load just to land with 50% or more fuel left in the tank.
    The fuel capacity of the Beau 1C (over 550 gallons) gave it a range of 1500 miles at 194mph

    Coastal Command Beaus flew out of Cornwall to patrol the Bay of Biscay, sorites were measured in hours.

    Clearly this is not relevant to the less than 100 mile hops we do in Clod, even at 10% fuel you can get to France and back.

    Running low fuel is just a game play tactic, no different to selecting a 109E4B for the uber engine at low alt and then dumping the bomb as soon as your airborne.

    seeing as low fuel is a tactic ALL planes can use then I fail to see why the game gets "adjusted" just to keep one team happy who practically never fly twins anyway.

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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Hi everyone,

    I’ve just removed some posts which were getting very unpleasant in terms of personal attacks. Let’s keep it civil, please.

    Snapper


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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
    The fuel capacity of the Beau 1C (over 550 gallons) gave it a range of 1500 miles at 194mph

    Coastal Command Beaus flew out of Cornwall to patrol the Bay of Biscay, sorites were measured in hours.

    Clearly this is not relevant to the less than 100 mile hops we do in Clod, even at 10% fuel you can get to France and back.

    Running low fuel is just a game play tactic, no different to selecting a 109E4B for the uber engine at low alt and then dumping the bomb as soon as your airborne.

    seeing as low fuel is a tactic ALL planes can use then I fail to see why the game gets "adjusted" just to keep one team happy who practically never fly twins anyway.
    Just so. Though I suppose, in all fairness, we must remember that they had their Hakenkreuz (swastika to us lesser mortals) removed from their plane set.
    The puritanical quest for realism only stretches so far......
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    If we're taking a vote, I too think the fuel capacity restriction is wrong. I would rather see it as a server option than a hard-coded limit. That said, I almost never take less than 100% fuel load in a fighter. In a JU-88 on the other hand, it is so unwieldy with a full load of bombs that I seldom take more than 20% when going to Littlestone and back. Still hard to get off the ground!

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  39. #28
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I’ve just removed some posts which were getting very unpleasant in terms of personal attacks. Let’s keep it civil, please.

    Snapper
    Why? it was getting entertaining
    The laughometer was climbing with nearly every post
    Last edited by 9./JG52 Meyer; Jun-16-2021 at 14:43.
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    I think the problem here is lack of consultation with the player base(who have purchased the game). The first I heard of the limits on reducing fuel capacity was in Pattles post announcing patch above.
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    Re: IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - Tobruk update 5.022

    Let me add some fuel to the fire. Yesterday on the VCAF server flying a Spit, I R&R’d. When you R&R you are given the choice of refueling which I did not need as I was only up for about 20 minutes, but I picked it to see what would happen if I picked the 10% level. Sure enough after 90 seconds my fuel gauge read 9 gallons. Does this get around the min. fuel level restriction? I seems it does!

    I personally approve of the minimum fuel level restriction, as pilots in real life rarely go airborne with minimum fuel. There is a saying in the Air Force. “the only time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire”.

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