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Thread: Improvements to the game

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    Supporting Member Gromit's Avatar
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    Improvements to the game

    I thought it might be beneficial to start a thread on how the game can be improved to increase participation.

    I have returned to Clod and was suprised to see we still have the same old scoring system.

    Basically there is no score for engaging ground targets or shipping, the game has a considerable increase in ground attack aircraft that has taken a lot of time and effort to build with excellent results, yet there is litterally no point in actually using them.

    Game players are competitive types and if we had some kind of scoring system for attacking ground targets it could well incentivise more people to use these airframes.

    OK you may flip a map, but you get no recognition for how much effort you actually put in, it shows how many times you died, but gives no indication as to how many ships you sank or tanks destroyed etc,

    Is it possible to overhaul the scoring script to give ground pounders a scoring system that could promote the air to ground roles, the old 1946 game had such a system and it worked well, for clod all that matters is kills or fractions of a kill, sinking a ship is far more benficial to a campaign than downing one airtcraft, isn't it time to redress this omission?

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    I'm on a sabbatical from COD back in time over the trenches. This is quite a good stats system and covers some of the things you have you covered Gromit (nice to see you again btw). There might be some things from this stats system that would work in COD perhaps?

    stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/

    Here's some screen grabs of the stats system used in this game. I'm still dying a lot but am slowly making it harder for the experten killers (there's a lot of them especially on weekends) to shoot me down. I'm still making tactical errors and trying to fly the Bristol like a 110 - note to self dont turn fight a Fokker triplane - but its rekindling my enthusiasm for flight sims which had dulled a lot recently.

    I'm still a COD person but am enjoying doing something a bit different for a while to freshen up. Its quite humbling - and good for the ego - to be at the bottom of the food chain again.....

    Slide1.JPGSlide2.JPGSlide3.JPGSlide4.JPGSlide5.JPGSlide6.JPGSlide8.JPGSlide9.JPGSlide10.JPG

    Ezzie
    Last edited by ATAG_Ezzie; Jun-12-2021 at 21:22.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
    I thought it might be beneficial to start a thread on how the game can be improved to increase participation.

    I have returned to Clod and was suprised to see we still have the same old scoring system.

    Basically there is no score for engaging ground targets or shipping, the game has a considerable increase in ground attack aircraft that has taken a lot of time and effort to build with excellent results, yet there is litterally no point in actually using them.

    Game players are competitive types and if we had some kind of scoring system for attacking ground targets it could well incentivise more people to use these airframes.

    OK you may flip a map, but you get no recognition for how much effort you actually put in, it shows how many times you died, but gives no indication as to how many ships you sank or tanks destroyed etc,

    Is it possible to overhaul the scoring script to give ground pounders a scoring system that could promote the air to ground roles, the old 1946 game had such a system and it worked well, for clod all that matters is kills or fractions of a kill, sinking a ship is far more benficial to a campaign than downing one airtcraft, isn't it time to redress this omission?
    I strongly agree that there should be a scoring system/statistics, that encourages to fly the groundattack planes.
    Hardly anyone is using Beaufighters, Hurribombers, Canon Hurris, 110s or Stukas anymore (in their proper roles at least) and they are some of the most interesting aircraft in game.

    But, as far as I know and maybe I misunderstood something, the stats and how they are handled are something that is done by the servers, not the game.
    Have you had a look at the TWC server? The stats there are fabulous (although there seems to be a hiccup at the moment).
    You even have a seperated fighter and bomber career, which is brilliant (although it would be still better if there was an additional one for groundattackers).

    The other thing making those planes attractive is to provide managable targets for them. But again this would be up to the servers and mission builders.

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    Supporting Member Gromit's Avatar
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    I'm sure the stats are seperate however I am reffering to the ingame scoring system that you call up during the flights.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    I think that more consultation and interaction with the player base is needed before changes are made to the game, I'm not talking about bug fixes or new skins. A particular beef of mine is the nerfing of the rifle caliber british guns in the early Hurris and spittys to improve the resilience of aircraft, it might be historically accurate but in my opinion took a lot of the fun out of Blitz. I am looking forward to the new weather system and graphical improvements, but at the same time I am concerned that it may make spotting at high res more difficult. the current trajectory of the game seems to be 100% authenticity but zero players

    For what its worth my suggestions for making the game more attractive,

    Improve spotting at high res.

    Narrow the performance difference between allied and axis aircraft

    This is not a criticism of TFS who have kept this game alive, but players are stakeholders too and need to be consulted.
    +
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_JackMaxx View Post
    I think that more consultation and interaction with the player base is needed before changes are made to the game, I'm not talking about bug fixes or new skins. A particular beef of mine is the nerfing of the rifle caliber british guns in the early Hurris and spittys to improve the resilience of aircraft, it might be historically accurate but in my opinion took a lot of the fun out of Blitz. I am looking forward to the new weather system and graphical improvements, but at the same time I am concerned that it may make spotting at high res more difficult. the current trajectory of the game seems to be 100% authenticity but zero players

    For what its worth my suggestions for making the game more attractive,

    Improve spotting at high res.

    Narrow the performance difference between allied and axis aircraft

    This is not a criticism of TFS who have kept this game alive, but players are stakeholders too and need to be consulted.
    +
    There was no change to the effectiveness of the British weapons, the change was to the durability of aircraft in general.

    All aircraft, across the board, had increased durability... in line with what the historical data tells us.

    There is a expectation in video games to expect instant destruction when targets are hit, but in the real life situation, this rarely happened... especially when rifle caliber weapons were used.

    Most of the losses suffered by the Luftwaffe during the BoB were a result of critical areas such as engines, fuel tanks or pilots being hit, rather than structural failures as a result of hits on wings, fuselage etc. Hits on structural areas rarely had any effect unless they were concentrated. There are many reports of Luftwaffe bombers returning to base with 100's of hits in the fuselage or wings without any serious effect.

    How the player sets up his weapons is a key factor in their effectiveness.

    If you set up your guns in a shotgun pattern and with convergence at a longer range, with a large area covered at convergence, you will not see focused damage at maximum bullet velocity... the bullet impacts will be spread over a large area of the target and therefore no critical damage is likely.

    With small caliber rounds, it is important to focus all the weapons so their rounds all converge on a particular point... and for the convergence to be at shorter range... i.e. 200 meters or less. The firing aircraft needs to get up close and needs to hit the target accurately in a critical area... i.e. cockpit, fuel tank, etc.

    This means the player has to be more patient, it also means he needs to get close to the target before firing, and it means he needs to be accurate. All of this can take quite a bit of practice, and we recommend practicing shooting in single player at convergence... starting with 'Rookie' level opposition and then improving AI rating once you get better.

    Regarding spotting... the CoD engine actually allows players to track enemy aircraft better than most simulations... but at the same time, it requires the player carefully search the sky for contacts at distance. In reality, spotting enemy aircraft was one of the most difficult skills to learn for WWII pilots, most new pilots had very poor abilities in this area... many were shot down without ever seeing their opponent.

    There is also the resolution factor... if you have a small screen and are running 4k resolution, you will have difficulties in seeing targets. When using 4k, we recommend a large screen... optimally it is best to use a TV sized screen. For an ordinary sized monitor, you are best sticking to 2k if you want optimum spotting.
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; Jun-13-2021 at 18:58.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post

    There is also the resolution factor... if you have a small screen and are running 4k resolution, you will have difficulties in seeing targets. When using 4k, we recommend a large screen... optimally it is best to use a TV sized screen. For an ordinary sized monitor, you are best sticking to 2k if you want optimum spotting.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
    I thought it might be beneficial to start a thread on how the game can be improved to increase participation.

    I have returned to Clod and was suprised to see we still have the same old scoring system.

    Basically there is no score for engaging ground targets or shipping, the game has a considerable increase in ground attack aircraft that has taken a lot of time and effort to build with excellent results, yet there is litterally no point in actually using them.

    Game players are competitive types and if we had some kind of scoring system for attacking ground targets it could well incentivise more people to use these airframes.

    OK you may flip a map, but you get no recognition for how much effort you actually put in, it shows how many times you died, but gives no indication as to how many ships you sank or tanks destroyed etc,

    Is it possible to overhaul the scoring script to give ground pounders a scoring system that could promote the air to ground roles, the old 1946 game had such a system and it worked well, for clod all that matters is kills or fractions of a kill, sinking a ship is far more benficial to a campaign than downing one airtcraft, isn't it time to redress this omission?
    I love stats but apparently more people don't as it leads to playing for the stats rather than playing for the team?

    Anyway, here's a post I made quite a while back in which I mentioned the great stats system they used to have on the IL2 Warlouds server:

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ll=1#post93406
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Again, I'm not really talking about post game stats but the in game scoring system that is available during the mission

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Buzzsaw thanks for the detailed response, just me getting my quarterly rant done , next installment in a few months, Keep up the good work S!
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_JackMaxx View Post
    Buzzsaw thanks for the detailed response, just me getting my quarterly rant done , next installment in a few months, Keep up the good work S!
    I applaud you for rationing rant. Many people don't.
    Cheers!
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_JackMaxx View Post
    I think that more consultation and interaction with the player base is needed before changes are made to the game, I'm not talking about bug fixes or new skins. A particular beef of mine is the nerfing of the rifle caliber british guns in the early Hurris and spittys to improve the resilience of aircraft, it might be historically accurate but in my opinion took a lot of the fun out of Blitz. I am looking forward to the new weather system and graphical improvements, but at the same time I am concerned that it may make spotting at high res more difficult. the current trajectory of the game seems to be 100% authenticity but zero players

    For what its worth my suggestions for making the game more attractive,

    Improve spotting at high res.

    Narrow the performance difference between allied and axis aircraft

    This is not a criticism of TFS who have kept this game alive, but players are stakeholders too and need to be consulted.
    +
    I appreciate your points ATAG_JackMaxx but to reduce authenticity in order to improve playability or 'fun' must be a travesty!

    Surely authenticity is the highest priority - if the sim needs to be dumbed down in some way so people can shoot things down more easily, or to make it more 'fun', then you might as well find a different game to play. In real life flying fighters in combat is difficult and dangerous - to be able to have a go at it in a realistic sim, and to succeed, is hugely satisfying.

    I already find the new higher reflectivity of aircraft to make them more visible at a distance disappointing as it makes it too easy to spot opponents (besides adding a weird 'hoar frost' effect to aircraft in some lighting conditions) - although hopefully the new weather system will reduce visibility to a more realistic level. Visibility in British weather is rarely more than 5 - 10 kilometres, let alone the 50 miles we currently get in CLoD.

    Having said that, authenticity is mainly fantastic in CLoD - let's hope it stays that way!

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    hoar frost effect and visibility at 50 miles? we don't appear to be playing the same game
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_JackMaxx View Post
    hoar frost effect and visibility at 50 miles? we don't appear to be playing the same game
    Sorry JackMaxx, should have made myself clearer - I don’t mean we can see aircraft at 50 miles range, but rather that visibility in aviation meteorological terms is always (and I mean always!) a good 50 miles - from 20,000 feet over Dover you can see both London and Calais. In reality weather that clear is rare in the UK.

    Hopefully the new weather system will give us a visibility slider or something like that - we could do with haze and mist effects to add tactical interest!

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    Supporting Member Gromit's Avatar
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by carbolicus View Post
    I appreciate your points ATAG_JackMaxx but to reduce authenticity in order to improve playability or 'fun' must be a travesty!

    Surely authenticity is the highest priority - if the sim needs to be dumbed down in some way so people can shoot things down more easily, or to make it more 'fun', then you might as well find a different game to play. In real life flying fighters in combat is difficult and dangerous - to be able to have a go at it in a realistic sim, and to succeed, is hugely satisfying.

    I already find the new higher reflectivity of aircraft to make them more visible at a distance disappointing as it makes it too easy to spot opponents (besides adding a weird 'hoar frost' effect to aircraft in some lighting conditions) - although hopefully the new weather system will reduce visibility to a more realistic level. Visibility in British weather is rarely more than 5 - 10 kilometres, let alone the 50 miles we currently get in CLoD.

    Having said that, authenticity is mainly fantastic in CLoD - let's hope it stays that way!
    Authenticity only goes so far and it's not very far at all.

    Real pilots don't have zoom eyesight.
    real pilots can't pull maximun rate manouvers constantly until the fuel runs out.
    It's not always a sunny day.
    Aircraft statistics will never be accurate, how can you compare aircraft directly when different nations used different methods, different corrections and different standards, all you can do is make a reasoned appraisal which may or may not be accurate, and how can they, the actual aircraft differed considerably even in same type.

    Weapons damage and aircraft damage models are borderline guesswork because the information to make accurate appraisals is not available to joe public and how could you transfer that into a game?
    MGFF don't really blow wings off Hurricanes and Spits, and Hispano don't really do it to 109's and Bf110's, it's not realistic!

    What this is, is a game, and it has to be playable for both sides, personally I would be ok with flight models that approximate the real thing rather than trying to be precise about something you can't be precise about anyway, I miss the pre blitz Stuka which made things great fun when you attacked the target then tried to dogfight with your two 7.9mm, it may not have been "accurate" or "authentic" but it was damn goof fun fighting in and against them.

    But that's just my opinion.
    Last edited by Gromit; Jun-20-2021 at 15:36.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromit View Post

    Real pilots don't have zoom eyesight.
    You take that back dammit !!!



    or i will use my bionic left leg which can do 300 mph and, together with my normal right leg... that can... oh god im dizzy... !!!


    i feel sick !!!!


    OK... so the bionic leg was... ill informed....

    but my bonic eye is 100% fine.

    200, 300 and 400% also working well.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Regarding the opening post, I think the best workaround is for the server to have a scoring system separate from the game, as is the case now. I don't know if generally destroying a ship gives more points than destroying a truck, but it would make sense for it to be so. For single missions, you can already check what you destroyed after the match ends. I know you mentioned the ingame table specifically, but I'm not sure how customizable it is for TF.

    Regarding improvements to the game in general, I think it's best for TF to hold releasing the graphics update until it isn't worse than what we have now. With MSAA and anisotropic filter from the graphic card panel, the game has amazing looks and runs super smooth (except night time, doesn't translate well to a LED screen as it is). And 2k textures give us the benefit of being able to freely use and see custom skins on the servers, which is unique to this game.

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    Supporting Member Gromit's Avatar
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinguim;374006[B
    ]Regarding the opening post, I think the best workaround is for the server to have a scoring system separate from the game, as is the case now. I don't know if generally destroying a ship gives more points than destroying a truck, but it would make sense for it to be so. For single missions, you can already check what you destroyed after the match ends. I know you mentioned the ingame table specifically, but I'm not sure how customizable it is for TF.[/B]

    Regarding improvements to the game in general, I think it's best for TF to hold releasing the graphics update until it isn't worse than what we have now. With MSAA and anisotropic filter from the graphic card panel, the game has amazing looks and runs super smooth (except night time, doesn't translate well to a LED screen as it is). And 2k textures give us the benefit of being able to freely use and see custom skins on the servers, which is unique to this game.
    Well this would be the same argument for aircraft kills, but noone is going to accept having the in game scoring system removed, people want ot see thier kills in game, so would the ground attack players, it's the same thing.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    A somewhat simple in-game improvement would be to simply list air, AA, ground, and ship kills - instead of the current air only.

    Or even make it air, ground, and ship (combining AA and "other ground"). This is pretty simple and I think most players would appreciate having that feedback.

    I will add, making (accurate) stats is not that easy. TWC's stats module is no less than 16,000 lines of code. The trouble is there are many, many, many, MANY special cases, edge cases, unusual situations, etc etc etc. Finding and catching them all is not so easy.
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Maybe these are already in the works with TrueSky but I would like see night, stars, weather and the appropriate interior and exterior lights for the aircraft needed to fly in those conditions.
    Next I'd like to see authentically modeled bombsights, then fix the remaining model issues on the Ju 88 like the ailerons not drooping when flaps are extended.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    More types of bombers to shoot at.

    Looking at related sims, always emphasize the fighters (BOM w/o DB-3 SB-2).

    I'm easily bored. Being offline (this hopefully changes late summer) And I'm not a competitive quality pilot, just like history and statistics. So I like to set up historic-like scenarios, and see how they play out.

    The AI is limited, but it is improving, and quality-AI is the Holy Grail of every title.

    I don't use CLOD habitually, but I do come and go.

    Understand that aircraft are expensive to make, but ai-bombers don't need be flyable, and their fm can be pretty basic (just reasonably convincing).

    Any number of Italian floatplanes, Marylands, Hudsons, Ju-52's (really missing these), Lodestar, DB-7, Bombay, etc.

    Was really hyped about the Martlet; and it's a great piece of work, but without an aircraft carrier it's just ... but I think I understand that one.

    Also, my vote for a battle of France 1940 map ... I love the d.520, although I can't hit a thing, and still don't understand what the slip-indicator's telling me. But man, I love how it falls out of a turn ... it's like the result of a 109 and P-39 hook-up. Just a map and an MS 406 would suffice.

    I think that TruSky could be a huge improvement.

    The head armor in the 109 is a good thing IMO, as now I actually have to more actively check-six.

    Also, my vote for adding the E-8 to the list.

    Also, AI for ships; when you drop a bomb it should try to evade a bit.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    A traditional speed bar and the ability to turn aircraft icons on and off "in flight" like in 1946 and IL-2 Great Battles are my top picks. These seem like such simple things, I've never understood why Cliffs/Tobruk doesn't have them

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Since patch 5.028: Option to hide/show icons's text - if the difficulty settings allow them to be shown in the first place (Options, Control, Chat)

    1.jpg

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucksnort View Post
    A traditional speed bar and the ability to turn aircraft icons on and off "in flight" like in 1946 and IL-2 Great Battles are my top picks. These seem like such simple things, I've never understood why Cliffs/Tobruk doesn't have them

    Having all these beautiful cockpits with perfectly working instruments, I've never understood why people don't want to look at them

    Different preferences I guess

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Having all these beautiful cockpits with perfectly working instruments, I've never understood why people don't want to look at them

    Different preferences I guess
    I spend about 50% of my time in external view. Other than taking off, landing, fighting, and performing other significant maneuvers, I'm in external view enjoying the cinematic view of my plane's skin and the beautiful scenery in Cliffs/Tobruk. You simply see more in external view.

    And with all the programming expertise Team Fusion has put into the aircraft, you would think they could easily knock out a speed bar and the ability to toggle aircraft icons on and off while "in flight." It's almost as if they are ignoring those features on purpose. And with Team Fusion being mostly comprised of hardcore single player campaign players, I don't understand why!

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucksnort View Post
    I spend about 50% of my time in external view. Other than taking off, landing, fighting, and performing other significant maneuvers, I'm in external view enjoying the cinematic view of my plane's skin and the beautiful scenery in Cliffs/Tobruk. You simply see more in external view.

    And with all the programming expertise Team Fusion has put into the aircraft, you would think they could easily knock out a speed bar and the ability to toggle aircraft icons on and off while "in flight." It's almost as if they are ignoring those features on purpose. And with Team Fusion being mostly comprised of hardcore single player campaign players, I don't understand why!
    Too unrealistic...might as well be playing Zaxxon.
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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucksnort View Post
    I spend about 50% of my time in external view. Other than taking off, landing, fighting, and performing other significant maneuvers, I'm in external view enjoying the cinematic view of my plane's skin and the beautiful scenery in Cliffs/Tobruk. You simply see more in external view.

    And with all the programming expertise Team Fusion has put into the aircraft, you would think they could easily knock out a speed bar and the ability to toggle aircraft icons on and off while "in flight." It's almost as if they are ignoring those features on purpose. And with Team Fusion being mostly comprised of hardcore single player campaign players, I don't understand why!
    Bucksnort, while you wait for the speedbar you may want to try the virtual cockpit which gives you an instrument panel on a second screen.

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Too unrealistic...might as well be playing Zaxxon.
    Being trapped in the cockpit view all the time, might as well be playing Red Baron from 1990 that only had a cockpit view

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawson View Post
    Bucksnort, while you wait for the speedbar you may want to try the virtual cockpit which gives you an instrument panel on a second screen.
    Is that the Wonder Woman view?

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    Re: Improvements to the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucksnort View Post
    Is that the Wonder Woman view?
    Nope. You have any view you want on the main screen and the gauges on a second screen or second computer (like a laptop under your monitor).

    Sample image here:
    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post247636

    Discussion here:
    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=28728

    There's also a recent discussion where a board member was improving the gauges.

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