WIP trueSKY and 4K images - Bf 109 variants

[ATAG_Pattle]

Hi All,

Next is our 4K/ trueSKY WIP update!

Bf 109 variants, featuring 4K and trueSKY images from IL-2 Cliffs of Dover Blitz / Desert Wings Tobruk.

For High Res images:

https://ibb.co/album/nPqS4z

Bf109 4K TS 1_2.2.6.jpg

Wingman 4K TS_2.1.1.jpg

Yellow 14 4K TS_2.2.10.jpg

Il-2 Sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover Blitz Screenshot 2021.08.01 - 21.20.45.58.jpg

Marseilles Leads 4K TS_2.2.11.jpg

You See it 4K TS_2.1.3.jpg

Wingman 2 4K TS_2.1.4.jpg

trueSKY and 4K images are WIP.

Regards,

TFS Team

[IIJG27Rich]

Holy smokes those are nice ..I just sent the other pics to a good friend and told him about the great review this sim got a few months ago..what was it 87 out of 100. "still one of the best WWII combat sims out there" he said. Pretty good for something ten years old but it's pretty much all due to TFS. I think

[rontaila]

Holy shit, with these images you forced me to wipe my glasses well, thank you TFS

[Bussard]

Great stuff. Keep up the good work!

[keeno]

Stunning pics!

[ATAG_TCP]

Definitely got the ball rolling now haha!
I have a feeling that this could be one of the biggest updates to the base sim aside from Tobruk and the initial performance breakthroughs, keep 'em comming

[Blitzen]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder dept.: I wonder how these new 4K will compare with GB versions? In my opinion ( for my exactly 2 cents) I've thought that the 109 E's and now F's have ( again to my eye ,)appeared to be just a little too "slick." Gb's versions seem very slightly better at duplicating the aluminum panel "ripple" effect that diffuses ( if that is the correct term,) the sun caused highlights on the fuselage & wings and therefore a little more realistic looking. I've included several screenshots of the GB Marsailles "F". They sort of show what I'm talking about.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Yeah, BoS has the effects of the „stressed“ skin where the panels are riveted. Looks really nice.
Isn’t it just the normal mapping or whatever it‘s called that makes light reflect that way? I think TFS is also working on this for CloD.

Btw I‘ve never really liked the panel lines effects that were introduced in CloD at some point. They look like what you see in bad scale models with too deep panel lines

[major_setback]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder dept.: I wonder how these new 4K will compare with GB versions? In my opinion ( for my exactly 2 cents) I've thought that the 109 E's and now F's have ( again to my eye ,)appeared to be just a little too "slick." Gb's versions seem very slightly better at duplicating the aluminum panel "ripple" effect that diffuses ( if that is the correct term,) the sun caused highlights on the fuselage & wings and therefore a little more realistic looking. I've included several screenshots of the GB Marsailles "F". They sort of show what I'm talking about.

Interesting.

[Blitzen]

Interesting.

Interesting....in a "good way"

[major_setback]

Interesting....in a "good way"

In a diplomatic way.

[Sleepy_Fly]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder dept.: I wonder how these new 4K will compare with GB versions? In my opinion ( for my exactly 2 cents) I've thought that the 109 E's and now F's have ( again to my eye ,)appeared to be just a little too "slick." Gb's versions seem very slightly better at duplicating the aluminum panel "ripple" effect that diffuses ( if that is the correct term,) the sun caused highlights on the fuselage & wings and therefore a little more realistic looking. I've included several screenshots of the GB Marsailles "F". They sort of show what I'm talking about.

Is the plane painted before or after setting of the rivets?

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

Is the plane painted before or after setting of the rivets?

In real life? After.

In the game? The panels and rivets are on a separate texture that has an alpha active that changes the opacity of the panels and rivets, like the weathering.

[ATAG_Colander]

In real life? After.

In the game? The panels and rivets are on a separate texture that has an alpha active that changes the opacity of the panels and rivets, like the weathering.

This is one of those rare occasions where real life is simpler than a game

[Sleepy_Fly]

In real life? After.

In the game? The panels and rivets are on a separate texture that has an alpha active that changes the opacity of the panels and rivets, like the weathering.

Thank you.

[major_setback]

Is the plane painted before or after setting of the rivets?

As others have said the rivets are on a separate layer to the the default or custom user skins. That doesn't mean that there can't be additional riveting wear (or dirt around the rivets) on user skins - that can be added on top of the basic look.

I don't know how this works on other sims/games though.

When it comes to the rippling/dimple effect around panels and rivets that can be seen in other games - I can't comment as it's not my area of work. That sort if thing is on hidden layers which I don't work on myself. I would imagine might be possible to add such effects, but I wouldn't really know myself how feasible it would be. It would be nice to see this effect though.

[ATAG_Flare]

As others have said the rivets are on a separate layer to the the default or custom user skins. That doesn't mean that there can't be additional riveting wear (or dirt around the rivets) on user skins - that can be added on top of the basic look.

I don't know how this works on other sims/games though.

When it comes to the rippling/dimple effect around panels and rivets that can be seen in other games - I can't comment as it's not my area of work. That sort if thing is on hidden layers which I don't work on myself. I would imagine might be possible to add such effects, but I wouldn't really know myself how feasible it would be. It would be nice to see this effect though.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder dept.: I wonder how these new 4K will compare with GB versions? In my opinion ( for my exactly 2 cents) I've thought that the 109 E's and now F's have ( again to my eye ,)appeared to be just a little too "slick." Gb's versions seem very slightly better at duplicating the aluminum panel "ripple" effect that diffuses ( if that is the correct term,) the sun caused highlights on the fuselage & wings and therefore a little more realistic looking. I've included several screenshots of the GB Marsailles "F". They sort of show what I'm talking about.

This effect is created using the normal maps, adding a slight blur between different colours of it to emulate slight inconsistencies in the way the aluminium skin is bent over the frame.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

I dunno... you tell me which is closer...











And of course, you can add weathering to the CLIFFS aircraft.

[rontaila]

My opinion is that we are looking at non-essential details for a moment. The sooner trueSKY and 4K images are released, the sooner we will see what can be improved about the image of the planes. You have done a good job TFS, we are waiting for the new updates.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Wingman 4K TS_2.1.1.jpg

This picture shows the Airfix 1/72 109 panel lines I mentioned. These don‘t look as good as what other light angles show. Also very visible on the Spitfire under certain angles.

Real aircraft have very subtle panel lines. And also have visible inconsistencies on its surface. The panels are never flat. This is less evident in Cliffs, more so in BoS. Even if a bit exaggerated there.

Cliffs planes are flatter under most light angles and then there are these deep panel lines. Would be nice to have some inconsistencies on the surface, like can be seen in real aircraft.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

But of course, this isn’t critical at all. I’m with Rontaila on this.

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

Sincerely said, after have read all this discussion and stopped to think about it for good, my personal conclusion is that...

I don't care a Flak about rivets!

[IIJG27Rich]

Everyone likes what they like boys

[major_setback]

4K panel lines won't be significantly thinner than those we have with 2048x2048 textures. I am interested in how other games approach the problem, as it is an important question. If there are no panel lines at all then that also looks wrong. All we could do is make them fainter, but it is not necessarily going to look better because of that.
I'm not working on the panel lines, but have had access to the new ones and tried resizing my own attempts at improving them without being able to better them.
I understand what is being said though.
... and yes, adjusting panel edges for light/reflection is probably the way to go, but obviously a huge amount of work would be involved, and you would still need panel lines of some sort or it would look wrong.

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

4K panel lines won't be significantly thinner than those we have with 2048x2048 textures. I am interested in how other games approach the problem, as it is an important question.

The main difference between 2K and 4K panel lines ( Speaking of pixels ) is...none. They are exactly of the same dimensions when zoomed at the maximum level. It's not that on a 4K skin the lines are thinner that one in 2K. What changes it's how many details you can draw on the skin because the 4K skin permits you to add more details due to the higher resolution. If it could be of help make a comparison between the same skin of Bos in 2 or 4K you'll notice immediately the difference.
For example on a 4K skin the distance between 2 rivets is about 8 pixels. In 2K exactly the half ( 4px ) so, for example, on a 4K skins you can, theorically, put the double amount of rivets in respect to a 2K one and especially you can detail them more ( for example with shadows ). A said the main difference it's the level of detail you can achieve, it's not about pixels size of a certain line.
What becomes important if we switch to 4K skins is the additional weathering layer that is currently added by the game. It must be updated to 4K res it too or removed otherwise we will end up with a 4K skins but with a weathering layer added by the game in low quality ( Because now is set for max 2K skins )

Sample of a 4K skin slightly zoomed in

[major_setback]

The main difference between 2K and 4K panel lines ( Speaking of pixels ) is...none. They are exactly of the same dimensions when zoomed at the maximum level. It's not that on a 4K skin the lines are thinner that one in 2K. What changes it's how many details you can draw on the skin because the 4K skin permits you to add more details due to the higher resolution. If it could be of help make a comparison between the same skin of Bos in 2 or 4K you'll notice immediately the difference.
For example on a 4K skin the distance between 2 rivets is about 8 pixels. In 2K exactly the half ( 4px ) so, for example, on a 4K skins you can, theorically, put the double amount of rivets in respect to a 2K one and especially you can detail them more ( for example with shadows ). A said the main difference it's the level of detail you can achieve, it's not about pixels size of a certain line.
What becomes important if we switch to 4K skins is the additional weathering layer that is currently added by the game. It must be updated to 4K res it too or removed otherwise we will end up with a 4K skins but with a weathering layer added by the game in low quality ( Because now is set for max 2K skins )

Sample of a 4K skin slightly zoomed in

Those hidden layers with wear etc. are what have been changed to 4K, along with the panel lines (not by me - I didn't do this hard work. I changed some stencils but only on just a few planes).

[major_setback]

Please keep in mind that some of the aircraft portrayed in the screenshots of 4K textures are actually using 2048x2048 custom skins. So you are looking at 4K textures overlaid by 2K skins.
Default skins should presumably be without panel lines (changes will no doubt have to be made to remove any remnants of panel lines on the default skins that still show them).
So in most (maybe all) of the screenshots you are not seeing the final result of how the default skins will look in the game with the 4K textures.


In other words ...
Everything is WiP.
You are probably looking at 2K panel lines at the moment.

[Bussard]

Is trueSKY comparable with the current cloud system in DCS World?

[carbolicus]

Is trueSKY comparable with the current cloud system in DCS World?

Now this is a very good question in view of the fact that although CLoD only does two types of cloud - high level cirrus and cumulus - it does both extremely well.

Even though CLoD is ten years older than Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, and its weather system is obviously nothing like as comprehensive, its cumulus clouds are way superior. I speak as someone who has spent many hours staring out of cockpit windows at clouds.

MS Flight Sim 2020's can sometimes look like balls of candyfloss. Real clouds often have surprisingly hard edges (and for this reason I actually even prefer the old pre-Desert Wings clouds). Let's hope Truesky (which looks very promising) knows this!

[Greyhound]

Nice!