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Thread: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

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    My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Hi,
    Since flying CoD, and it sort of puts me off getting into flying but I try to ignore it and have a quick mission and fun, I have the throttle (Saitek X45) calibrated in PC, the red bar is where it should be for min and max, also the blue bar in CoD controls is also where it should be for min and max.
    I fly quick mission and throttle is fully forward, I see my virtual squadron aircraft pull away from me and get to the bombers quicker, I am slowly getting nearer, takes ages. Even stukas take ages to catch up to, meanwhile my 'mates' have already ravaged them by the time I get within firing range. Advanced Engine management is off, as otherwise I end up with engine problems then flames within 30 secs or so.

    What is going on with this slow speed, RPM is at 30 and doesnt go higher ? I fly Spitfire Mk I (as the Ia has a Mk II spinner and looks very stupid and is NOT normal BoB with such)

    I am with both 4.53 and v5, currently flying v4.53 ( as dislike silly Harry Potter unreal blue auras across glazing wrecking the realistic stills I take, and shadows far too dark in cockpits to see anything) and I am experiencing this slowness right now.

    Is this failure to be as fast as AI colleagues and taking ages to catch up the enemy a know issue with CoD ?

    The flight characteristics should be realistic as folk like that, so by v4.53 they should be good, especially a basic such as speed.

    Cheers

    BOBC

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    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    This is a common problem with formation flight, in both real flight and in our gaming simulator. The problem is not with you the wingman, rather it is the fault of the flight leader. In most phases of formation flight, the leader is trained to use less than maximum power for exactly this reason. In an AI simulation however, the leaders are probably programmed for maximum efficiency which usually means full power. (100% RPM with any augmentation like Boost cutout Override OFF). So, you should have extra power with BCO, but it takes a while to catch up.

    In real life, there are two corrective actions: First, a good leader will see that number two is not keeping up and will reduce power a few RPM, Inches of MP, PSI of boost or whatever he chooses. Second, the wingman may call on the radio for lead to reduce power. Common language is fine or say "Give me two" which means reduce by two hundred RPM, inches, etc... If you need more, you should ask... don't just sit back there unable to protect lead or yourself. It's too bad that an AI leader can't hear you.

    I know this is just a game but avoid flying around at MAX power in any situation. BCO is an emergency feature in the RAF Fighters since it over pressurizes the induction system and can lead to engine failure.
    Last edited by Baffin; May-13-2022 at 09:02.
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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Hi,

    I think AI always flies with a perfectly trimmed plane. That's something what human pilots are not able to do. Definitely not me.

    And if I remember right, Buzzsaw said AI does not suffer from overheating until its plane is damaged. That means AI can fly an undamaged plane at full power (maximal throttle, boost, RPM, with emergency power or boost cut out override) for unlimited time.

    Josef

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by Josef View Post
    AI can fly an undamaged plane at full power (maximal throttle, boost, RPM, with emergency power or boost cut out override) for unlimited time. Josef
    I would also contend that sometimes the AI, even with a damaged aircraft, is able to far exceed the abilities of a breather pilot. Case in point: I had engaged a flight of bombers heading for Shoreham. They were being escorted by 3 G50’s. The G50’s engaged me and I was able to get a few hits on the lead aircraft (he began trailing smoke) but I lost track of him because of the other 2 demanded my attention. After shooting both of them down (I should probably mention that I was in a Hurricane MkIIc – those 20mm made short work of the task at hand), I began looking for the lead G50 before continuing my intercept of the bombers. I finally spotted him above Shoreham at approximately 2000 ft and approximately 4 miles from my position. I began to pursue him. I swear, I chased that G50 (still trailing smoke) from 2000 ft above Shoreham to 27,000 ft above Isle of Wight. At which point he turned on a heading for either Querqueville or Theville, still climbing, still smoking, still fully powered. Once we achieved +30,000 ft with no reason to believe I was gaining on him, I finally gave up chase. As far as I know he made his way back to France, still climbing, never slowing down.

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    AI tends to come in three modes, God mode hard to kill, Stupid mode fly straight and level when being killed and third mode somewhere in between. I'm not sure this is game (TFS) programming, but is propably down to choices made by the map maker.
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Padre View Post
    I would also contend that sometimes the AI, even with a damaged aircraft, is able to far exceed the abilities of a breather pilot. Case in point: I had engaged a flight of bombers heading for Shoreham. They were being escorted by 3 G50’s. The G50’s engaged me and I was able to get a few hits on the lead aircraft (he began trailing smoke) but I lost track of him because of the other 2 demanded my attention. After shooting both of them down (I should probably mention that I was in a Hurricane MkIIc – those 20mm made short work of the task at hand), I began looking for the lead G50 before continuing my intercept of the bombers. I finally spotted him above Shoreham at approximately 2000 ft and approximately 4 miles from my position. I began to pursue him. I swear, I chased that G50 (still trailing smoke) from 2000 ft above Shoreham to 27,000 ft above Isle of Wight. At which point he turned on a heading for either Querqueville or Theville, still climbing, still smoking, still fully powered. Once we achieved +30,000 ft with no reason to believe I was gaining on him, I finally gave up chase. As far as I know he made his way back to France, still climbing, never slowing down.
    Way to go G.50!!!
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; May-08-2022 at 00:37.
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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Having watched my Staffel colleagues go belting on ahead yet again and cause the Blenheims to break before I even got to them, leaving me with a find one and try and chase it, I need to find out if I am travelling at true speed. This is supposed to be as it would be so we approach together, especially if I am Staffel leader. I thought CoD was at least performing as would be , I know folk are more into the flying than the visual realism of correct colours, groundcrew etc. But now I come to fly I am unable to approach the enemy as would be the normal case, one of a finger four formation, my unit members sticking with me, turns into a free for all and no pairs (rotte) or schwarms as such,.

    Has this been fixed in V5 I wonder. I far prefer the realistic look of V4.53 though.

    If I set up a known distance track in Mission builder, make sure two known visible ground objects of a known distance apart are after the start and before or at the end, make wind zero and fly it at full throttle, and do some stopwatch stuff, I can find out whats going on. Altitude also plays a part so I need to get my hands on some Farnborough test flight data, max speed at different heights. All the sort of thing that should have been done when first designing a sim.

    Has anyone done this already ?

    ...and I blow the port aileron off a Blenheim Mk IV, and its still moving about eluding me as it was before doing so, as if flown as if it was a spitfire, surely winging it should afford me a better less tricky opponent.

    BOBC

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Most of the time the issue is the Mission builder has set too high a cruise speed for the AI formations... or has put in too high a rate of climb.

    Therefore the AI, with perfect climb/trim gains an advantage.

    Reducing the speeds and/or reducing the amount of altitude gained will usually resolve the problem.

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Reducing the speeds and/or reducing the amount of altitude gained will usually resolve the problem.
    See Mission Builder's Manual, Appendix, XI.1 Recommended Speeds and Climb Rates for AI Aircraft

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Is it true that TF changed the speed in FMB files from True Airspeed to Indicated Airspeed?

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by GANIX View Post
    Is it true that TF changed the speed in FMB files from True Airspeed to Indicated Airspeed?
    No, the speeds have always been indicated.

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Thanks, Buzzsaw.
    I think I got it. For planes with indicated 'kph' I have to calculate Kilometer per hour and miles per hour for planes with 'mph' indicator. And always with respect to the certain waypoint height.

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by GANIX View Post
    Thanks, Buzzsaw.
    I think I got it. For planes with indicated 'kph' I have to calculate Kilometer per hour and miles per hour for planes with 'mph' indicator. And always with respect to the certain waypoint height.
    Remember that 300 kmh is a lot faster in True Airspeed at 10000 meters than it is at sea level.

    And if the aircraft is programmed to climb at 300 kmh at high altitude, it will be difficult for the human player to achieve that.

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Remember that 300 kmh is a lot faster in True Airspeed at 10000 meters than it is at sea level.

    And if the aircraft is programmed to climb at 300 kmh at high altitude, it will be difficult for the human player to achieve that.
    TAS can be approximated by adding 3% to IAS for every 500 m of altitude. In your example at 10,000 m with an IAS of 300 km/h, the TAS is 300 + 60% ≈ 480 km/h
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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Based on the standard atmosphere conditions of the 30's/40's the TAS at 10km should be approx. 510kmh TAS for 300kmh IAS.
    (Reference: Fl.23914, Berichtigungstafel für "Fahrtmesser")
    Compared to your approximated 480kmh a remarkable difference. Computed 1 hour delay for crossing the channel at 10km.


    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    TAS can be approximated by adding 3% to IAS for every 500 m of altitude. In your example at 10,000 m with an IAS of 300 km/h, the TAS is 300 + 60% ≈ 480 km/h

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by GANIX View Post
    Based on the standard atmosphere conditions of the 30's/40's the TAS at 10km should be approx. 510kmh TAS for 300kmh IAS.
    (Reference: Fl.23914, Berichtigungstafel für "Fahrtmesser")
    Compared to your approximated 480kmh a remarkable difference. Computed 1 hour delay for crossing the channel at 10km.
    I am not sure I understand what you mean by the standard atmosphere conditions "of the 30’s/40’s”. Standard conditions are by definition … standard. They should not change with time.

    My formula is a quick "back of the envelope" approximation. At 10,000 meters it is somewhat stretched, but still the error is 5-6% only.

    It is pretty accurate though up to 5-6,000 meters, which is usually the max bombing altitude in Clod. I never managed to climb much higher than that in a fully loaded Ju88… at these altitudes the error is less than 1%.

    If you have the Berichtungstafel or a DR3 slider on hand you’d be better off using them of course.



    PS. Also I am not sure how you computed the one hour delay for crossing the channel between your 510 km/h and my 480 km/h.
    Assuming the channel is 35 km, it takes you 4.12 minutes to cross it at 510 km/h, and 4.38 minutes at 480 km/h. The delay is 0.26 minutes, or about 15 seconds… that is less time than it would take you to reach your Berichtungstafel and compute a more accurate TAS
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; May-15-2022 at 21:37.
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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Maybe he calculated the time from the moment the engines started
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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    You are right Noofy, the statement is misleading.

    Not going on to argue about speeds anymore, promised.


    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    ... Also I am not sure how you computed the one hour delay for crossing the channel between your 510 km/h and my 480 km/h...

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    Re: My aircraft dont go as fast as my squadron members

    Quote Originally Posted by rontaila View Post
    Maybe he calculated the time from the moment the engines started
    I think the confusion comes from:

    1. 510 km/h - 480 km/h = 30 km/h.
    2. Channel width ≈ 30 km.
    3. Therefore delay is (wrongly) assumed to be one hour…



    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; May-16-2022 at 13:14.
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