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Thread: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

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    Novice Pilot MorsKochanski's Avatar
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    PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Hello all, after some advice. Having spent the last 28 years on Apple products I'm a complete novice when it comes to anything PC. Lots of people advising to simply build one, but in my experience there are several issues with iterative design, the main one being you by things that aren't compatible and then end up either having to haggle a return or sell at a loss.

    To circumvent that I feel it may be prudent to simply buy an off the shelf PC, I'm based in the UK, so links will be to UK sites that offer pre-built machines. I also have a sub £1500 budget, which I feel should be more than enough.

    Questions are:

    1. Will this be adequate to run CLoD and DCS games?
    2. Does it appear reasonable value?
    3. Do the components seem to be skimping anywhere and...
    4. Is there a major performance jump in air vs. liquid cooled (the latter requiring a compromise on other major components, like GPU or Processor so weigh up that I would have to make a performance compromise to get the benefit of cooling).

    First up, Cube Mythic (vile case but it'll live under a table anyhow): https://www.box.co.uk/Cube-Mythic_41...103349,4112320

    Second choice, Spectra Celeste (graphics card seems lower spec here): https://www.overclockers.co.uk/spect...fs-1dh-ep.html

    Neither are liquid cooled, but I can always speak to the suppliers to see if it can be added.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    I don't have a clue about computers, so I also buy per-buid ones (asking my friends for advise). In my experience the best thing is to buy the most powerful machine you just can afford.
    The development is so fast that even the most up to date machine will look old in a very short time.

    I bought my machine 2 1/2 years ago and thought I would be good to go for at least 5 or 6 years (as with the previous one).
    But now I changed to a 4k monitor and the radiators are louder than a starting up Beaufighter, just to keep the NVIDIA 2070 from melting.

    Someone with far more knowledge than myself told me that NVIDIA is planning on bringing out the 4000 cards soon, so it might be worthwhile to wait a bit for this and either get a machine with a 3070 cheaper or one of the new ones that will last a bit longer.




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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    I tend to go off the shelf. Every decade or so I buy a new PC, and as I go, I upgrade video cards every couple of years or so... but if i was only playing cliffs at 1080p... I'd still be using the GTX 1080ti... or maybe even the 980ti

    as Derda says... whack a massive resolution screen into the mix and you need some serious graphical muscle.
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Jun-08-2022 at 10:50.

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    Combat pilot Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    To give you an idea of how far your money can go check out:
    https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

    This site sources parts from online retailers and the buyer puts them together. This probably isn't for you but it will inform you of your options.

    The Intel entry level system will play CLoD (or BoX) effortlessly for about 700 pounds sterling. Both PCs you linked are superior to this.

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    Admin ATAG_Snapper's Avatar
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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Wot all these gents have said!

    Last year Highseas generously shipped me his 980ti card which restored life into my aging PC for 1080p flying.

    Recently I traded in a bunch of accumulated AirMiles points to get the laptop described in my signature below. Its 3060 card has no difficulty giving 50+ fps at 4K resolution (3840x2160). I also hooked up this unit to our family 55” 4K TV via a HDMI cord and the results are utterly breathtaking!

    (I’m under NDA as a beta tester so I can’t say too much - but the upcoming Visual Update even for those who don’t have Virtual Reality rigs will be utterly gobsmacked. 4K TV’s can be had at reasonable prices on clearance sales - they take up a lot of room in store warehouses when they try to make room for the incoming latest/greatest models. I got mine at a “Black Friday” sale at the local Best Buy electronic big box store. It’s not a “smart tv” - who cares? - it’s 4K and the huge screen makes Cliffs of Dover in 4K absolutely GORGEOUS!)



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    VR: None
    Installation path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    I tend to go off the shelf. Every decade or so I buy a new PC, and as I go, I upgrade video cards every couple of years or so... but if i was only playing cliffs at 1080p... I'd still be using the GTX 1080ti... or maybe even the 980ti

    as Derda says... whack a massive resolution screen into the mix and you need some serious graphical muscle.
    I've been using a 1080 for about 5 years now, and I always play at 4K resolution with no stutters. I did upgrade my computer a couple years ago to an AMD Ryzen, so it's pretty powerful. I'm still running the VCAF server in a virtual machine on this computer, and it seems to have no problems.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Without getting into specific prices as I don't know how expensive things are in your area or currency I would recommend that you get an NVIDIA video card and an INTEL CPU. NVIDIA video cards tend to have better drivers, and AMD video cards tend to have on and off graphical problems with flight sims. Since most sims are running on old engines that really only use one core, you want the best single core performance for a CPU. Intel has better single core performance overall. AMD has great CPU's for most things, but they are not as good for games/sims that only run on one.
    Spec: Intel i9 11900k overclocked at 5.3 GHz, Asus Maximus XIII motherboard, 64 GB high speed DDR4 RAM, ROG Strix RTX 4090, M.2 HD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with center stick and extension, Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 or HP Reverb G2, CH Throttle Quadrant, LG UltraGear 48GQ900 monitor.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Good advice DerDa - that is the maximum budget, you kind of have to expect the redundancy with anything tech related, at least it won't be as bad as my iMac (last one cost me almost 3k, my late brother looked at the specs and had a fit, it's mostly considerably cheaper laptop parts!).

    I'll ask a friendly nerd about the imminency of the 4000 cards, although in reality as long as it handles my graphics work and plays DCS and CLoD that'll do me. I'm just loving the flight sim, nothing even close on a PlayStation that's for sure.

    Thank you Dawson, I'll definitely check that link. I guess I could copy the specs from the pre-build and match or better components from there? I may just summon the courage to build one, all I need is a bit of hand holding through the process. I must know someone (although I can't think of any right now).

    Interesting you say 4k Snapper, on the phone the guy said that the maximum resolution the 3070 could handle on this machine was only 2k (I say only) – yours is an older card no? So, an older card is maybe a better choice?

    Yes Headshot, I had heard that elsewhere too, but couldn't remember the reason why it was a better choice, thank you for reminding me. In that case the Cube Mythic (or better) would be the correct marriage of Graphics and Processor for a flight sim? Again, you say a 1080, would I be better opting for one of these rather than the 3070? It's just lots and lots of numbers to me.

    Finally, thanks all for your replies. Is liquid cooling really worth the bother if I'm not intending to overclock?

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post

    Interesting you say 4k Snapper, on the phone the guy said that the maximum resolution the 3070 could handle on this machine was only 2k (I say only) – yours is an older card no? So, an older card is maybe a better choice?
    Well, I’m no expert, to be sure.

    Take a look at Tom’s Hardware and draw your own conclusions. The 3070 card places well above the 3060 with regards to handling graphics load. As mentioned, my modest laptop with its 3060 has no problem handling Blitz/Tobruk in 4K. IMHO the guy on the phone is selling his machine short, but I guess he should know!

    Good luck!


    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...rchy,4388.html


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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawson View Post
    To give you an idea of how far your money can go check out:
    https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

    This site sources parts from online retailers and the buyer puts them together. This probably isn't for you but it will inform you of your options.

    The Intel entry level system will play CLoD (or BoX) effortlessly for about 700 pounds sterling. Both PCs you linked are superior to this.
    Great tip this. I can build better for less using this setup: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/guide/kM...treaming-build

    I guess that they know everything is compatible? All I have to do now id find a tame nerd (my late brother was the PC nerd in the family).

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    Combat pilot Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    Great tip this. I can build better for less using this setup: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/guide/kM...treaming-build

    I guess that they know everything is compatible? All I have to do now id find a tame nerd (my late brother was the PC nerd in the family).
    I've found that site does a good job matching components so they are compatible. You need to pay attention mostly to the CPU and motherboard combination.

    You'll also need a copy of Windows so that's another item to budget.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Thread resurrection.

    And one for the experts.

    Whilst Intel and NVidia combo seems like the most 'sim friendly' is there really no way an AMD will work as well as the prices are way cheaper for an AMD.

    A 3090 setup, even if I budget on the other bits, comes in at £2k. I'm sure an equivalent speed AMD wouldn't cost as much, however, there may be some to avoid.

    I think I've seen some of you, in your footer profiles, state AMD. So which would be a go'er for the, ummm, 'budget conscious'?

    https://www.simulatorhardware.com/fl...imulator-2020/

    This, for instance, seem much more bang for a similar buck.

    https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/...00-o16g-gaming
    Last edited by MorsKochanski; Jun-17-2022 at 07:50.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    top

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Yes AMD can work, but there's also a history of a lot more graphical issues that pop up with game and driver updates. Just be aware that if you get AMD, it may work fine for a while, then not for a while until someone somewhere updates something, which is entirely out of your control. Also, you really don't need a 3090 for this game. That's going way overkill. If you need to get things cheaper, you can easily step down to a 3070 or 3080 for cliffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    Thread resurrection.

    And one for the experts.

    Whilst Intel and NVidia combo seems like the most 'sim friendly' is there really no way an AMD will work as well as the prices are way cheaper for an AMD.

    A 3090 setup, even if I budget on the other bits, comes in at £2k. I'm sure an equivalent speed AMD wouldn't cost as much, however, there may be some to avoid.

    I think I've seen some of you, in your footer profiles, state AMD. So which would be a go'er for the, ummm, 'budget conscious'?

    https://www.simulatorhardware.com/fl...imulator-2020/

    This, for instance, seem much more bang for a similar buck.

    https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/...00-o16g-gaming
    Spec: Intel i9 11900k overclocked at 5.3 GHz, Asus Maximus XIII motherboard, 64 GB high speed DDR4 RAM, ROG Strix RTX 4090, M.2 HD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with center stick and extension, Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 or HP Reverb G2, CH Throttle Quadrant, LG UltraGear 48GQ900 monitor.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    this is probably not going to much help, but I buy the the best I can afford at any given time, CLOD is not particularly demanding on newer spec kit but the difference in graphis is noticeable when using a higher spec video card(nvidea) in my case, also you will future proof your system and other games you might want to play may need higher spec then cliffs
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Headshot View Post
    Yes AMD can work, but there's also a history of a lot more graphical issues that pop up with game and driver updates. Just be aware that if you get AMD, it may work fine for a while, then not for a while until someone somewhere updates something, which is entirely out of your control. Also, you really don't need a 3090 for this game. That's going way overkill. If you need to get things cheaper, you can easily step down to a 3070 or 3080 for cliffs.
    3080 I can do, at a squeeze. Although I was told that they would support up to 2k, not 4k (I'm not really bothered about 4k, after a point it becomes irrelevant).

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    There are sites online which sell Windows 10 keys completely legally for dirt cheap as well. My local store was going to charge me about ~$130 for Windows 10 Pro, but I got it online for $8. Apparently in North America they aren't allowed to resell certain things, which can include Windows, but in Europe companies can buy huge amounts of bulk licenses and then sell ones they end up not using for very little money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawson View Post
    I've found that site does a good job matching components so they are compatible. You need to pay attention mostly to the CPU and motherboard combination.

    You'll also need a copy of Windows so that's another item to budget.
    Spec: Intel i9 11900k overclocked at 5.3 GHz, Asus Maximus XIII motherboard, 64 GB high speed DDR4 RAM, ROG Strix RTX 4090, M.2 HD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with center stick and extension, Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 or HP Reverb G2, CH Throttle Quadrant, LG UltraGear 48GQ900 monitor.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    3080 I can do, at a squeeze. Although I was told that they would support up to 2k, not 4k (I'm not really bothered about 4k, after a point it becomes irrelevant).
    You'll also need a better quality monitor to run 4k, and for flight sims especially sometimes higher resolutions make distant target spotting harder as well.
    Spec: Intel i9 11900k overclocked at 5.3 GHz, Asus Maximus XIII motherboard, 64 GB high speed DDR4 RAM, ROG Strix RTX 4090, M.2 HD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with center stick and extension, Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 or HP Reverb G2, CH Throttle Quadrant, LG UltraGear 48GQ900 monitor.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post

    1. Will this be adequate to run CLoD and DCS games?


    First up, Cube Mythic (vile case but it'll live under a table anyhow): https://www.box.co.uk/Cube-Mythic_41...103349,4112320
    This Mythic should by OK for CloD (i5-12400F, GTX 3070), but a bit weak for DCS, for this game you need at least 32GB of RAM and more strong CPU.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    This Mythic should by OK for CloD (i5-12400F, GTX 3070), but a bit weak for DCS, for this game you need at least 32GB of RAM and more strong CPU.
    I think the best bang for buck I can put together would be a 3080 alongside an Alder Lake i7-12700K. I guess still weak for DCS (I'm not too bothered about DCS right now, although I did have hopes of mucking about in a more modern helo too).

    Thanks all for your replies.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    How does this spec look?

    Intel Core i7 12700KF Twelve Core Processor
    Intel Z690 Motherboard
    32GB Corsair Vengence RGB PRO SL DDR4 3600MHz RAM
    1TB M.2 NVMe SSD & 2TB HDD
    GeForce RTX 3080 Graphics
    Built in WiFi & Bluetooth
    Featuring MSI & Cooler Master
    CPU Cooling: Water Cooled

    Also this monitor:

    https://www.box.co.uk/iiyama-G-Maste...-_2961160.html

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    How does this spec look?

    Intel Core i7 12700KF Twelve Core Processor
    Intel Z690 Motherboard
    32GB Corsair Vengence RGB PRO SL DDR4 3600MHz RAM
    1TB M.2 NVMe SSD & 2TB HDD
    GeForce RTX 3080 Graphics
    Built in WiFi & Bluetooth
    Featuring MSI & Cooler Master
    CPU Cooling: Water Cooled

    Also this monitor:

    https://www.box.co.uk/iiyama-G-Maste...-_2961160.html
    The RTX3080ti costs a little more, but I appreciate its extra performance at 4k on an OLED 50 inch LG TV.
    Windows 11 Pro, ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero, 2 TB Samsung M.2 SSD 990PRO. Intel Core i9 14900KF using TPUII BIOS feature. Air Cooling with Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE CPU Cooler w/ 2 fans. Crucial 96GB DDR 5 RAM at 5600 MT/s. LG 55" 4K OLEDC7P TV, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio 24G. Realtek High Definition Audio, Sony Surround amp w/ optical cable for 5.1 speakers, Ear Buds from Motherboard for Discord/TeamSpeak3. TrackIR5, Buttkicker Gamer 2, Thrustmaster Warthog, 2x Saitek X-52 (Buttons & Gear), Gear-Falcon Trim Box, Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals. Voice Activated Controls.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    The RTX3080ti costs a little more, but I appreciate its extra performance at 4k on an OLED 50 inch LG TV.
    I'm just running a QHD screen, not 4k. 4k under 60" is a little overkill to me, but it's a personal choice, granted.

    So, otherwise okay (bear in mind I started ay 3070 I think).

    There's not that much in it between the 3080 & 3080Ti though, is there?

    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...rchy,4388.html
    Last edited by MorsKochanski; Sep-30-2022 at 11:02.

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    Re: PC Advice Required please (prices are UK).

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    I'm just running a QHD screen, not 4k. 4k under 60" is a little overkill to me, but it's a personal choice, granted.

    So, otherwise okay (bear in mind I started ay 3070 I think).

    There's not that much in it between the 3080 & 3080Ti though, is there?

    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...rchy,4388.html
    Who knows? If you're selling one it's ten times better.

    If you're a buyer, do your homework and decide for yourself.

    NVidia sells the ti as a significant improvement. See:

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...x-3080-3080ti/
    Last edited by Baffin; Oct-11-2022 at 14:47.
    Windows 11 Pro, ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero, 2 TB Samsung M.2 SSD 990PRO. Intel Core i9 14900KF using TPUII BIOS feature. Air Cooling with Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE CPU Cooler w/ 2 fans. Crucial 96GB DDR 5 RAM at 5600 MT/s. LG 55" 4K OLEDC7P TV, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio 24G. Realtek High Definition Audio, Sony Surround amp w/ optical cable for 5.1 speakers, Ear Buds from Motherboard for Discord/TeamSpeak3. TrackIR5, Buttkicker Gamer 2, Thrustmaster Warthog, 2x Saitek X-52 (Buttons & Gear), Gear-Falcon Trim Box, Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals. Voice Activated Controls.

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