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Thread: A question re: Enemy AI

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    Supporting Member chris455's Avatar
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    A question re: Enemy AI

    Gents,
    I have taken up COD again after a long hiatus. What a massive improvement this sim has seen over the years! Everything is better, with only a few small bits still awaiting improvement.
    The reason I posted in Single Player's Lounge is of course that this is what I am, and thus, almost always playing vs. the AI.
    Which leads to my question: How do other single players feel about the near constant barrel rolling/evasives that the AI begin to exhibit the moment they "sense" you are after them?
    It seems that even "rookie" AI are aerobatic experts, dodging ,weaving, rolling, diving- I am hard pressed to even get a bead on them.
    Has anyone found any AI settings tweaks that can tone down this behavior? Or do I need to simply "stick it" and continue to spar with them until I master the technique of shooting them down?
    I would be interested to hear other's thoughts on this.
    Thank you in advance for your time!
    Chris
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    In honor of Arlie "Jack" Campbell, (1923-2006), United States Army Air Forces, WWII. Well done, Sir.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Back at this after a long hiatus as well. This is about the only sim I've ever seen this behaviour in. It is annoying as all get out. I too wish they would just stick to the basic two dimensional turns and let me set myself into lag pursuit until I get close enough to move into lead pursuit and shoot them down. But I did run across something in the Air Combat Tutorial Library on YouTube that pointed to just this hijinking being standard Luftwaffe behaviour. I mean what do you or I do when there is a Me-109 on our tail? They just don't sit still in a flat turn and neither do I. This is compounded by the lack of a nice icon that tells me where to point my nose like in BoX to get the shot. A problem exacerbated by most guns are paltry 303's and don't do any appreciable damage even when you do get a hit. I'm having a lot of fun just just being a dog with a bone. I consider a good mission just getting % damage let alone a kill. I haven't yet had the courage to go with limited ammo.
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    Supporting Member chris455's Avatar
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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Thank you for the reply.
    I fly full difficulty with the exception of a locked pit, don't do that because I enjoy occasionally looking at my plane!
    The flat circle turns can get predictable and boring after a bit, I won't mention the sim that is famous for them, so-
    Is the AI in COD a blessing in fact? More realistic than the others? I wouldn't mind a bit of it were limited to "ace" behavior, but basically any pursuit ship is going to exhibit "roller-derby" behavior as soon as you pass his 3-9 line.
    Been waiting since (2012?) initial release for the AI in this sim to come of age, I think we're here, but I never dreamed when we got here I wouldn't be good enough to compete with the AI! Maybe just practice, practice, and more practice until I "git gud".
    Cheers-
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    In honor of Arlie "Jack" Campbell, (1923-2006), United States Army Air Forces, WWII. Well done, Sir.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    I've been simming a very very long time. Still waiting to get better. I blame it on the eyes but it's probably the brain.
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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    ... near constant barrel rolling/evasives that the AI begin to exhibit the moment they "sense" you are after them?
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_leonard View Post
    This is about the only sim I've ever seen this behaviour in. It is annoying as all get out.
    To be fair this AI "Batfink" behavior is "leftover" of IL-2turmovik 1946, latter Team Daidadalos improve 1946 AI somewhat.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Sure.
    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-fighter...tantly-rolling

    ... and the unpredictability makes this so much fun. I don't play it to rack up kills (although that feels good), it's to immerse myself in the crazy a*s s*!t that perhaps may have happened at 5000 feet over France in the spring of 1940 (maybe down to tree top). This game delivers that. It did in 2012, but with bunch of crazy a*s s*1t (outside of the pure sim) unfortunately attached. Team Fusion clearly saw the diamond in the rough. Kudos to them. Old adage, you can't push on a rope and you can't polish a turd. They polished something special.
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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Team Fusion are sorcerers. I'll never know how they have done what they've done. But I am definitely grateful.
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    In honor of Arlie "Jack" Campbell, (1923-2006), United States Army Air Forces, WWII. Well done, Sir.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Same here, fired up CoD after a lengthy time away. I know fine motor skills are perishable unless maintained, but I was shocked at how badly I performed. The barrel rolling the AI does goes back to earlier vestiges of IL-2 Sturmovik and they continue unabated. I always enjoyed the concentration required to chase down an adversary, but it reaches a point to where the AI knows when you're likely to pull the trigger, then launches into the usual gyrations. Not much variation there tactically, but between the predictably wild maneuvers and the paltry ineffectiveness of the modeled .303 rounds, flying for the RAF puts one at a decided disadvantage. Even when flying against bombers, those 7.92mm German MGs hurled by sharpshooter gunners from a not-so-wildly maneuvering aircraft will take you out in short order from almost any angle. I've tried experimenting with setting my aircraft to "invulnerable" with unlimited ammo and poured truck loads of rounds at short range into the He-111 engines without noticeable effect. Occasionally an engine might stream coolant, rarely begin to smoke and almost never catch fire whereas my careful, guarded approach more often than not will be rewarded by an engine hit, windscreen covered in oil which may progress quickly to a raging fire. IIRC I used to see the targeted aircraft shed parts, often flight control surfaces which would have significant impact on their performance, but that doesn't seem to happen as often now. I sometimes feel that had the same conditions existed in reality, I think the outcome of the Battle of Britain would likely have been very different.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Quote Originally Posted by paul_leonard View Post

    ... Old adage, you can't push on a rope and you can't polish a turd. They polished something special.
    Thanks.
    We try our hardest to push and polish.
    Last edited by major_setback; Aug-21-2022 at 16:12.
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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Quote Originally Posted by I_B_Spectre View Post
    Same here, fired up CoD after a lengthy time away. I know fine motor skills are perishable unless maintained, but I was shocked at how badly I performed. The barrel rolling the AI does goes back to earlier vestiges of IL-2 Sturmovik and they continue unabated. I always enjoyed the concentration required to chase down an adversary, but it reaches a point to where the AI knows when you're likely to pull the trigger, then launches into the usual gyrations. Not much variation there tactically, but between the predictably wild maneuvers and the paltry ineffectiveness of the modeled .303 rounds, flying for the RAF puts one at a decided disadvantage. Even when flying against bombers, those 7.92mm German MGs hurled by sharpshooter gunners from a not-so-wildly maneuvering aircraft will take you out in short order from almost any angle. I've tried experimenting with setting my aircraft to "invulnerable" with unlimited ammo and poured truck loads of rounds at short range into the He-111 engines without noticeable effect. Occasionally an engine might stream coolant, rarely begin to smoke and almost never catch fire whereas my careful, guarded approach more often than not will be rewarded by an engine hit, windscreen covered in oil which may progress quickly to a raging fire. IIRC I used to see the targeted aircraft shed parts, often flight control surfaces which would have significant impact on their performance, but that doesn't seem to happen as often now. I sometimes feel that had the same conditions existed in reality, I think the outcome of the Battle of Britain would likely have been very different.
    If you are using the default RAF ammo loadouts rather than customising them, they use a lot of plain ball ammo. Adding/changing to de wilde or AP helps the firepower a lot. Most of built in missions use default loadouts and its not easily changed but its much more effective.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Quote Originally Posted by chris455 View Post
    Gents,
    I have taken up COD again after a long hiatus.
    Chris
    Yes Ai in single player and multiplayer can be annoying, some fly straight and level while you walk your guns onto them, others it seems that your crosshairs are their trigger to evade, sometimes with crazy manouvering. in my humble opinion CLODs strenght is in multiplayer, fighting other RL players is more fun, more satisfying and bestows bragging rights that shooting AI just dosen't. My advice, get into multiplayer and on coms as soon as you feel ready, there is a community waiting to welcome and help you.S!
    Don't let Grudges fester and poison your future happiness......get your revenge as quickly as possible.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Quote Originally Posted by 56RAF_stickz View Post
    If you are using the default RAF ammo loadouts rather than customising them, they use a lot of plain ball ammo. Adding/changing to de wilde or AP helps the firepower a lot. Most of built in missions use default loadouts and its not easily changed but its much more effective.
    I believe the reason is that De Wilde and AP were scarce ressources during the Battle of Britain, and were therefore not widely used…
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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    I believe the reason is that De Wilde and AP were scarce ressources during the Battle of Britain, and were therefore not widely used…
    Probably did not explain myself well, I meant he may well be remembering effects caused by superior rounds when he flew before his lay off. I have not really noticed that the default RAF ammo is any less effective than it used to be (it always appeared rubbish).
    Although there are comments from the shores mediteranean air war volumes about British BoB veterans out there complaining about the lack of AP rounds available in the desert that they had during the BoB. I know dewilde was scarce but no idea with AP.

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    Re: A question re: Enemy AI

    Hi Chris445
    The AI in CLoD and DWT can be somewhat predictable if not bizzare!
    Like you, I am a Single Player who lives in the FMB side of things. I have found that setting the pilot skill to " Rookie" "Average" etc does not seem to make much difference to some of the aircraft's behaviour.
    However, fiddling with the eight attributes in the Skill editor does, to me, get rid of some of the silly behaviour of excessive rolls etc.
    Since the advent of DWT, the Skill editing on the Tommahawk and Kittyhawk is particularly rewarding in terms of what kind of fight one will get and the aircraft's behaviour.
    The lowering of a combination of the eight attributes will definitely result in a " Turkey Shoot" type senario you can practice your gunnery skills ( or lack thereof ) on.
    Hope this helps.
    Happy landings

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