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Thread: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

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    Novice Pilot Veteran66's Avatar
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    Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Hi all

    I am mostly unterway as Bomber Pilot.

    IL2 GB, DCS or CloD all Flightsimulations have the same Problem, low Tools for the Navigator.

    As Bomber Pilot i will fly hart core without Player Ikons on the Nav Map.
    This is the challenge am I looking for.

    Way finding on Night or bad weather, Target and Bombing is what i like.
    To bad the Games do not have a good Navigations Tool on the Flight Maps.

    So i try Unity3d (i make some more very small Apps for private with it) to make a Navigations Map for all Flightsimulations i like.
    So step by step i build the "Navigator" in this App i put some older Apps i make and put all Tools i need for Navigation in it.
    The App is not perfect i am no coder or Unity3d expert.

    I will shere the Navigator, so all Flightsimulations Fans can use this App.

    On this way, i hope it is ok i put the Clod Channel map as first Map in the Navigator.
    I hope the user share here some Maps for the Navigator.


    I am long time a CloD fan, i was a Beta Tester (negative reports have not been heard from the developer) i recort all german Voices and make some campaign for Desastersoft.
    So the Navigator is the next Part for this great Flightsimulation.


    Navigator v1.3 Download

    Update v1.1: i add Lorenz ZZ Symbol
    Update v1.2: i add new Radio beacon Symbols, load new Map work now
    Update v1.3: i add new Player Plane Symbol

    overview.jpg

    Master Tools.jpg

    pictures_and_text_loads.jpg

    TextField.jpg

    Tools.jpg

    Example.jpg

    overlay.jpg


    INFO:

    The Navigator App for Bomber Pilots is a standalone Windows app for Cliffs of Dover pilots who like to do some real navigation in order to reach their destinations.

    It has been created with Unity3d and is suitable for all flight simulations as any flight map can be loaded, not just those from Cliffs of Dover.

    It contains all the navigation devices I wished for in flight simulations. These can easily be moved, placed and used on the map with the mouse.

    It also offers the possibility to load an "overlay map" (png image) over the the map itself.

    Mission creators (single and multiplayer) can easily create such an "overlay map" in a layer supporting image editor (gimp, Photoshop, etc) by using the original map as background and painting all mission relevant information such as front lines, defense lines, bridges, targets, important flight paths, radio, or direction finder frequencies into an additional layer and finally exporting only that layer as a png image with alpha channel. This can then be distributed with the mission or its briefing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Veteran66; Sep-04-2022 at 09:29.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    EDIT: Just found out that you can click in the ruler itself up to 60km mark to rotate the ruler, was trying just the tip of the ruler before. Great tool!

    Very cool tool, flight planning is one of the cool things about bombing missions.

    How can I rotate the km ruler?

    I'm attaching a picture to illustrate what I mean.

    Thank you!
    Captura de tela 2022-08-28 114607.jpg
    Last edited by Pinguim; Aug-28-2022 at 10:54.

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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinguim View Post
    EDIT: Just found out that you can click in the ruler itself up to 60km mark to rotate the ruler, was trying just the tip of the ruler before. Great tool!

    Very cool tool, flight planning is one of the cool things about bombing missions.

    How can I rotate the km ruler?

    I'm attaching a picture to illustrate what I mean.

    Thank you!
    Captura de tela 2022-08-28 114607.jpg
    the Ruler rotate push Mouse Button 1 between 20 and 60 km and rotate
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    great work, thanks!
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    hi all

    Navigator 1.2 now live

    i add a new Radio beacon Symbol for better handling and i start a Compass Corrections table. The datas i have from "Compass Corrections For CLOD Bombers" table.
    ATAG_Noofy you make this table, i hope i can use it
    Link:
    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ass+correction



    And i fix the problem with "Load Map"


    Screenshot (120).jpg
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran66 View Post
    ATAG_Noofy you make this table, i hope i can use it
    Of course you can. Just make it clear to the user that these correction numbers include the 10 degree declination.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    thx ATAG_Noofy

    for the Flight Course note:

    Winddeclination = must see from what for Wind direction and strength

    Eartdirection = for Channel Map 1940 10°

    Planedirection = see table from ATAG_Noofy, depends on Plane Metal and Plane magnetic fields


    declination.jpg
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran66 View Post
    thx ATAG_Noofy

    for the Flight Course note:

    Winddeclination = must see from what for Wind direction and strength

    Eartdirection = for Channel Map 1940 10°

    Planedirection = see table from ATAG_Noofy, depends on Plane Metal and Plane magnetic fields


    declination.jpg
    The proper terminology is as follows:

    "Winddeclination" = drift
    "Earthdeclination" = declination (short for magnetic declination)
    "Planedirection" = deviation

    The equation therefore is:

    Course to steer = intended heading +/- drift +/- declination +/- deviation

    My tables show the sum of the last 2 terms (+/- declination +/- deviation)

    The drift needs to be computed and added. It will depend of course on the wind direction and speed, but also on your course and speed. You can use the backside of the Dreieckrechner to determine the drift angle…

    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-02-2022 at 10:53.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    i make some tests with the Navigator and the "Compass Corrections For CLOD Bombers" table.
    I can not tale a bearing on my Ju88 on the Map, i have always wrong position on the Navigator map vs ingame Map

    ATAG_Noofy can you make a example
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    when i use from the "Compass Corrections For CLOD Bombers" table 10° i find my position on the map.

    Screenshot (130).png

    Screenshot (129).jpg

    Screenshot (127).jpg

    Screenshot (122).jpg
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    You must be doing something wrong...

    I use the same correction angle of 10 degrees (this means that for a geographical heading of 323 degrees I must steer 333 degrees)
    Screenshot (130).png

    This is my position according to your tool
    01.jpg

    The radio bearing to Calais is 333 (same as in your tool)
    02.jpg

    The radio bearing to Le Touquet is 295 (same as in your tool)
    03.jpg

    And I have a perfect position match between your tool map and the in-game map...
    04.jpg

    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-03-2022 at 08:20.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Hey Noof,

    Your chart worked perfectly for me. I did a test run “under the hood” in a Wellington from Eastchurch to Wilmington to Dieppe to Tramecourt, all on Mode 22. I used your chart to apply the declinations to each waypoint bearing. I had a long range radio beacon assigned to each airfield so I would have FLRC confirmation of each airfield’s proximity.

    It worked. Not only did the adjusted (per your chart) course magnetic compass headings match the radio compass gauge centered indicator, but when the indicator began to deflect, I would do a visual check vertically downward through the bombsight - viola! The airfield! Reset the compass for the next waypoint/airfield, adjust the primary frequency for the next WP/airfield: same result.



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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Hey Noof,

    Your chart worked perfectly for me. I did a test run “under the hood” in a Wellington from Eastchurch to Wilmington to Dieppe to Tramecourt, all on Mode 22. I used your chart to apply the declinations to each waypoint bearing. I had a long range radio beacon assigned to each airfield so I would have FLRC confirmation of each airfield’s proximity.

    It worked. Not only did the adjusted (per your chart) course magnetic compass headings match the radio compass gauge centered indicator, but when the indicator began to deflect, I would do a visual check vertically downward through the bombsight - viola! The airfield! Reset the compass for the next waypoint/airfield, adjust the primary frequency for the next WP/airfield: same result.

    Glad it worked for you

    I now regret didn’t bug it for red bombers…

    My chart works as is but it does not take the wind into consideration. Many maps do not implement wind, or at least not in a significant way, so it is no big deal in most cases.

    There are however techniques to calculate the wind speed and direction, and to compute a drift correction angle using the DR3 (for blue) or the E6B (for red) tools. You can find online versions of both in the "clodtools" (among other goodies).

    Veteran66’s Navigator tool discussed in this thread has the DR3 included.
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-03-2022 at 09:07.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    You must be doing something wrong...

    I use the same correction angle of 10 degrees (this means that for a geographical heading of 323 degrees I must steer 333 degrees)
    Screenshot (130).png

    This is my position according to your tool
    01.jpg

    The radio bearing to Calais is 333 (same as in your tool)
    02.jpg

    The radio bearing to Le Touquet is 295 (same as in your tool)
    03.jpg

    And I have a perfect position match between your tool map and the in-game map...
    04.jpg

    for the radio direction finding you can use the dashed line on the tool
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran66 View Post
    for the radio direction finding you can use the dashed line on the tool
    Right. I did not see it. Got it now. Still learning...
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    You can use the backside of the Dreieckrechner to determine the drift angle…
    You can make a guide of how do this using DR-3?

    I've read van Riet PDF but in their example he use values that don't explain how obtain.

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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    You can make a guide of how do this using DR-3?

    I've read van Riet PDF but in their example he use values that don't explain how obtain.
    Hi. Well I can try...

    Part 1: determine the wind direction and speed with the DR3

    To determine the direction of the wind and its speed with the DR3, you need to fly two courses with 60 degrees difference (for example 330 and 030) and determine the drift angle for each of these two headings. You will notice that the back side of the DR3 has a big black arrow, and to its right a red line with a red dot at the top. These are 60 degrees apart. So in my example, I put the black arrow on my first heading (330), and the red dot shows directly the second heading of 030. Pretty cool!

    So you turn the autopilot to heading 330.
    0001.jpg

    Now jump into the bomber seat, and lower the sight to an angle about 30 or 40 degrees down to see under the plane. You select any spot on the ground, and see if it moves left or right of the center line. You turn the sight slip to the side where the dot is moving. In my case it was moving to the right, so I turn the sight until the spots on the ground follow the centerline exactly. I read the drift angle. In this example it was +5 degrees.
    0002.jpg

    Now turn the plane to the heading of 030
    0003.jpg

    and repeat the same process. In my case the spots were also moving to the right, but aligned at a drift angle of +4.5 degrees.
    0004.jpg

    So now you can go to the back side of the DR3. You will see that the black arrow line has blue lines parallel to it with numbers from -16 to +16, and the red line with the red dot also has red lines parallel to it with numbers -16 to +16. These are the drift lines. So draw one green line on the +5 degree line of the 330 heading, and one green line on the +4.5 degrees of the 030 heading. The two lines will meet at a point. Now you turn the big blue arrow so it crosses the point where the two green lines meet. You can read the wind direction blowing from 270 to 090. You know the direction of the wind.
    0005.jpg

    Now we need to determine the wind speed. You will notice that the point where the two green lines meet is on the black circle marked 10%. This means that the wind speed is 10% of your true air speed.

    Aha, so how do we get the true airspeed. Well, the other side of the DR3 is here for that. But first back to the cockpit, we need some other information: altitude, indicated airspeed, and external temperature. We can read these directly from the instruments:
    0006.jpg 0007.jpg 0008.jpg

    We note IAS = 340 km/h, Altitude is 4100 m, and external temperature is -9.3 degrees C. Back to the computer side of the DR3.

    Turn the black circle until your IAS is aligned with the external temperature. So put 340 in front of -9.3 degrees. Then turn the middle slider with the red line to the indicated altitude of 4.1 km, and read the TAS directly on the black circle under the red line. In this example TAS=420 km/h.
    0009.jpg

    Side note: I have a quick approximation to determine TAS by adding 3% to my IAS for every 500m of altitude. In this example, I am flying at 4100m, so 8 x 500m. I add 8x3% = 24% to my IAS, so my TAS = 340 x 1.24 = 421 km/h. Very close to what the DR3 calculated. Pretty cool, no?
    We have determined earlier that the windspeed is 10% of TAS, so it is 10% of 420, or 42 km/h. But how much is this in m/s ? Well, the DR3 is your friend.

    Back to the computer side. Turn the inner circle until the red triangle marked 1h is aligned with the windspeed in km/h (42), and read the windspeed in m/s above the m/s red sign: 11.6m/s
    0010.jpg

    So we have a wind of 11.6 m/s from the west...

    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-03-2022 at 15:50.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Part 2: determine your course and TAS corrections due to wind

    So now that we know the direction and speed of the wind, how does this affect our course and TAS?

    Let us take an example, and say we are heading on a course of 130 degrees.

    Let us go back to the DR3. First to the back side. Put the blue arrow as per wind (from 270), and the black arrow on our course (130).

    So the wind is coming from our right at an angle of 140 degrees. The opposite angle of the triangle is 40 degrees. That's the number we need.

    0011.jpg

    Now with this information we can switch back to the computer side. We align our TAS with the inside wind angle (so we put 420 km/h opposite the number 40. Then we read the drift angle directly opposite the wind speed in km/h. The wind speed is 42 km/h, so opposite 42 we read 3.7 degrees. This is our drift angle. To calculate the remaining angle of the wind triangle to get the adjusted TAS, we need to calculate 180 - 40 - 3.7 = 136.3 degrees. We can read our wind corrected TAS opposite that number: 460 km/h.

    0012.jpg

    Since the wind is from 140 from our right, we will be drifting to the left, so to follow 130 we will have to correct our course 3-4 degrees to the right, to 133-134 degrees, and our adjusted TAS is now 460 km/h instead of 420 km/h.
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-03-2022 at 15:27.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Hi all

    i add a new Player Plane Symbol

    Screenshot (131).jpg
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran66 View Post
    Hi all

    i add a new Player Plane Symbol

    Screenshot (131).jpg
    Nice. I think you can make the plane a little smaller…
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Nice. I think you can make the plane a little smaller…


    ok smaller

    Screenshot (132).jpg

    download updatet
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran66 View Post
    ok smaller

    Screenshot (132).jpg

    download updatet
    No I meant just the plane symbol. The ring with the graduations is fine, but the plane too disproportionate…
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Sorry, this is a little off topic but I have been following this thread and a saw a IAS to TAS chart, I believe posted by Noofy but I can no longer find the link. Could this be posted again as I'm learning the 88 and having issues getting the bombsight to lock onto target. Many thanks.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Birdtail View Post
    Sorry, this is a little off topic but I have been following this thread and a saw a IAS to TAS chart, I believe posted by Noofy but I can no longer find the link. Could this be posted again as I'm learning the 88 and having issues getting the bombsight to lock onto target. Many thanks.
    I did not publish a IAS to TAS conversion table.
    There is one on page 449 of Chucks Guide here but I don't think it is very accurate.

    You can calculate it with the DR3 as explained a couple of posts up.

    But the simplest way to transform IAS to TAS in my opinion (I always use this method) is to approximate it by adding 3% to your IAS for each 500m of altitude.

    For example say you fly at a speed of 340 km/h at an altitude of 3500m. That's 7 x 500 meters, so you must add 7 x 3% = 21% to your IAS. Therefore your TAS = 340 x 1.21 = 411 km/h.
    In your bombsight you must input your altitude of 3500m and TAS of 410 (closest round figure).

    When you lock your bombsight on the target, observe it for a while. If the target moves above the crosshair, your input speed is too low, so increase it slowly to 420, 430 etc. until the target stops moving vertically.
    If the target moves below the crosshair, your input speed is too high, so decrease it slowly to 400, 390 etc. until the target stops moving vertically.
    When done, move to the back ventral gunner position and enjoy the bombs hitting their target

    You have two pages explaining the basics of high altitude and dive bombing with the Ju88 in the flashcards that come with the game. Once you launch the sim, from the main menu go to MANUALS, then select aircraft folder.
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-06-2022 at 12:41.
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Thanks Noofy, I remember now seeing your 3% per 500m formula and will use that. I must have got lost in 6 or 8 open tabs of ATAG forum threads. Have checked out the flashcards as well as others. Just another CLOD learning curve
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    how get the Luvwinkel (Wind Correction Angle) with the Navigator (DR3)

    see pictures

    Luvwinkel.jpg
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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    And just a reminder that this tool is available for the Lofte 7:
    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ls/lotfe7.html


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    Re: Navigator App for Bomber Pilots

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran66 View Post
    how get the Luvwinkel (Wind Correction Angle) with the Navigator (DR3)

    see pictures

    Luvwinkel.jpg
    You forgot the last part: calculate your wind adjusted ground speed:

    The drift angle is 2 degrees.
    The opposite angle to the wind angle is 170 degrees.
    Calculate 180 - 170 - 2 = 8 degrees.
    Read opposite 8 degrees your ground speed adjusted for the wind to be 120 km/h.
    The DR3 is a powerful computer. It also never runs out of batteries. Just needs some practice...


    Luvwinkel-2.jpg
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Sep-08-2022 at 09:01.
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