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Thread: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

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    Novice Pilot MorsKochanski's Avatar
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    eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    I was going to call this project 'turn your old shhhh, shhhhugar into new kit' – but it seemed a little rude for such a well behaved bunch as on here.

    Anyhow, I inherited a bunch of stuff from my late brother, most was already well past its use-by-date but has allowed me to start simming on IL-2. One of the items was a rather knackered Microsoft Sidewinder 2 joystick.

    Most of the buttons worked, occasionally, bits of the base are missing. The throttle, if you can call it that, was pretty loose and floppy. It was destined for the great eWaste landfill in the sky...

    Then I got to thinking, I would like a throttle quadrant, but not one of those massive clamp to the desktop jobs – I wonder if I can fashion something from this joystick, the mk.1 custom flight controller project box and some buttons, switches I have left over? I have a 3D printer and mini cnc so it should be possible. A little compact affair that can sit to one side of my chair arm.

    Stripping down the joystick gave me 4 potentiometers, and 12 buttons (although one of them will not work no matter how hard, or often, I press it). Two pcbs are inside, pretty simple one-sided affairs, so I'll de-solder the pins and remove the buttons where I can. the top-hat switches will likely be left on the pcb as they look like a pain to remove, I'll simply piggyback feeds off the solder stumps underneath...

    It should work... time will tell.
    Last edited by MorsKochanski; Sep-26-2022 at 15:26.

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    Novice Pilot MorsKochanski's Avatar
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    It should end up looking something like this... (obvs, not purple!)Screenshot 2022-09-26 at 11.31.41.png

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    Combat pilot Little Bill's Avatar
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Interesting idea. Keep us informed.

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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    In 2007 I made this 'Franken'Throttle" for a friendly using the guts of a Microsoft Sidewinder gamepad - USB controller, and two potentiometer.

    The base box was from a deceased Suncom F-15 joystick
    Grip from PCB pipe and leftover plywood from a RC model aircraft kit, plastic sheets.
    Push-buttons from electronic store.



    2 axis and 12 buttons.

    After all painted black, the grip was covered with synthetic leather.

    "Secret components": the knob for the pot in the lower grip under thumb, a plastic gear, and the HAT cover... a toothpaste lid.

    With today 3D printer facilities don't need this... exotic materials.

    The more trickly part is the connection of the throttle lever with the potentiometer, the lever can't placed direct in the pot, the lateral forces will destroy the pot fast, but need a flexible coupling in between.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Sep-26-2022 at 10:52.

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    Novice Pilot MorsKochanski's Avatar
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    In 2007 I made this 'Franken'Throttle" for a friendly using the guts of a Microsoft Sidewinder gamepad - USB controller, and two potentiometer.

    The base box was from a deceased Suncom F-15 joystick
    Grip from PCB pipe and leftover plywood from a RC model aircraft kit, plastic sheets.
    Push-buttons from electronic store.



    2 axis and 12 buttons.

    After all painted black, the grip was covered with synthetic leather.

    "Secret components": the knob for the pot in the lower grip under thumb, a plastic gear, and the HAT cover... a toothpaste lid.

    With today 3D printer facilities don't need this... exotic materials.

    The more trickly part is the connection of the throttle lever with the potentiometer, the lever can't placed direct in the pot, the lateral forces will destroy the pot fast, but need a flexible coupling in between.
    Love this. There's still a place for lids and anything injection moulded as 3D printed stuff, unless either laser sintered or resin based, tend to exhibit lines along which delicate parts can fracture. For knobs this size I would always look for something off the shelf that could work.

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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Update 1:

    The throttle is mostly built, enough to test anyhow. Some issues.

    Whilst all the potentiometers work, they're not exactly 'quality' items. In fact, I would go as far as to say they're some of of the cheapest pots I've ever seen. Thus, a couple have odd dead zones at the start of the range. Still functional but sadly the idea of having two throttles side by side for the Blenheim is out of the window, if you match them in real life, the game gives different throttle settings for each, so you cannot grab both and throttle up uniformly.

    As it is, I mapped the first (with the biggest deadzone annoyingly) to the throttle, and the next lever to the wheel brakes. Having linear brakes instead off on/off makes a huge difference to landing is the first thing I noticed. The other levers work well enough for prop and radiator however.

    I think I'll persevere with this as is (I'm £20 in for an ABS sheet and some filament) But ultimately build another version with the Arduino Micro and quality pots (might even use the LEOBODNAR game controller board that someone linked to on here) - all the buttons etc. I can re-use from this so it will 'do' in the interim though.

    Sadly, there is no way to calibrate the deadzone area in (I tried) there is nothing produced in the raw data to work with so the first 15% of throttle movement does nothing.

    Anyhow, I'll update with pics when complete as it looks okay as a basis for a improved version built from scratch.

    At least the throttle sections/ lever sections work well with a nice resistance.
    Last edited by MorsKochanski; Sep-28-2022 at 19:03.

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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    The deadzones may be in the firmware of the stick, not in the potentiometers: I once tried something similiar with a (logitech 3D?, can't really remember) and connected hall sensors to it - but the deadzones were hardcoded in it's firmware, so I dropped the project and got myself one of Leo Bodnar's boards (expensive - there are cheaper boards around now).

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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Artist View Post
    The deadzones may be in the firmware of the stick, not in the potentiometers: I once tried something similiar with a (logitech 3D?, can't really remember) and connected hall sensors to it - but the deadzones were hardcoded in it's firmware, so I dropped the project and got myself one of Leo Bodnar's boards (expensive - there are cheaper boards around now).
    I did wonder this, whether the deadzone was a product of the onboard microprocessor rather than a function of quality.

    Alternatives to the Leo boards... please share, DM if you prefer. Budget is limited (otherwise I would have simply bought a throttle!)

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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    I built a similar throttle using 3d printed parts I designed and printed myself. I used tiny pots that could turn 360 degrees freely, so I had to put physical stops to the levers at the exact spot where the pot would go from max to min. And of course also position the pots exactly. It was a pita. But worked well within the confined space. Next time around I’d just used regular pots.

    Everything worked great until I broke the main throttle handle (was similar to what Sokol posted) and ended up buying a Warthog. Redesigning the weak point whoch was the lever going up to the handle, reprinting and rewiring everything wasn’t worth it. Was an interesting experiment though.

    I used a Arduino PRO Micro for the board and that sw that programs them ready to use (MMjoy2).

    https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...-cheap-arduino

    One thing I learned was that calibrating the axis was very important due to physical differences in construction from one lever to the other (I had 4 side by side). But in the end they worked with very close values when moved forward the same.

    I then went on to build a collective which also worked great. And also got substituted by Virpil HW at some point.
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52_J-HAT View Post
    I used a Arduino PRO Micro for the board and that sw that programs them ready to use (MMjoy2).

    https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...-cheap-arduino
    I was trying to avoid going down the arduino route again, whilst I have made the two controller boxes already I found the coding of them a little bit of a headache, with some trial and error. Is the MMjoy2 stuff easy to use?

    I must say, I was attracted to the Leobodnar boards as they just look so easy to use.

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52_J-HAT's Avatar
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    I was trying to avoid going down the arduino route again, whilst I have made the two controller boxes already I found the coding of them a little bit of a headache, with some trial and error. Is the MMjoy2 stuff easy to use?

    I must say, I was attracted to the Leobodnar boards as they just look so easy to use.
    You open the software, flash your board, configure your inputs and outputs and loads the firmware to the board. It’s done in 5 minutes if you already have your layout for the matrix done on paper and know your IOs. It’s extremely easy.

    It’s all done through the GUI


    Edit: In case I haven’t been clear: you don’t program anything, just select the functions from the GUI and the code is downloaded already done to your board.
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52_J-HAT View Post
    You open the software, flash your board, configure your inputs and outputs and loads the firmware to the board. It’s done in 5 minutes if you already have your layout for the matrix done on paper and know your IOs. It’s extremely easy.

    It’s all done through the GUI


    Edit: In case I haven’t been clear: you don’t program anything, just select the functions from the GUI and the code is downloaded already done to your board.
    That does look quite simple, there will likely be tutorials online too. Final question....

    Do you need to use diodes for button matrixes with this (the standard Joystick library doesn't really need diodes used anymore it seems - at least I never used any)?

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52_J-HAT's Avatar
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    That does look quite simple, there will likely be tutorials online too. Final question....

    Do you need to use diodes for button matrixes with this (the standard Joystick library doesn't really need diodes used anymore it seems - at least I never used any)?
    I made one for the throttle which was a pita to solder. Theoretically yes, you need one, but when I did my collective I didn’t bother and it still worked with the few buttons in the matrix and never pressing two at the same time.

    The link on SimHQ with Sokol’s explanation I posted has pretty much everything you need.
    The trickier part is downloading the correct firmware and loading it correctly to the type of board you have. But he covers it there too. There are also a bunch of links there with all the stuff you need.

    Btw, I‘ve also used a Teensy and it works well too. Got a button box I still use and have a UFC I made but don’t use anymore because some of the cables broke at their soldering points.

    And use good fine wire. The usual stiff crappy wire you get off of amazon or so is awful in the tiny spaces. The fine (AWG28 and higher) ones are way better! Maybe you still have some left from your stick or an old 20 Pin parallel port cable (those old LPT cables we used for dot matrix printers).
    Last edited by 9./JG52_J-HAT; Sep-29-2022 at 08:37.
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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    Quote Originally Posted by MorsKochanski View Post
    Do you need to use diodes for button matrixes with this (the standard Joystick library doesn't really need diodes used anymore it seems - at least I never used any)?
    Unless the controller have a integrated Shift Register circuit, like L. Bodnar BU0836X9 (but not BU0836A) is need use diode matrix or shift register IC's if want use many buttons, eg. 32 + POV HAT. For few buttons ~10-12 can skip the use.

    E.g CH joysticks use diode matrix.

    MMjoy2 (and FreeJoy) support diode matrix and CD4021, 74HC165 Shift Register IC's - each handle 8 buttons and you can daisy chain one in another.

    E.g Thrustmaster Warthog, VirPil, WingWing use CD4021 IC's.

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    Re: eWaste into throttle quadrant? Possibly...

    20221007_223301.jpg

    The form ended up okay, even if the function is somewhat compromised. I'll end up rebuilding with a Leobodnar board and potentiometers. Means I can also add some more buttons and encoders, although the quadrant takes up quite a bit of the space.

    Still works 'okay' though.

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