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Thread: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

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    Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    I've been trying out the Wellingtons with the 2000lb MkIV AP bomb. It has only one choice for detonator, "Detonator No. 30 Mk I Fuse".

    It seems to explode inconsistently, or perhaps not at all?, when dropped from low altitudes.

    It seems like it usually works (meaning, expldoes) when dropped from 1500 feet or above, usually when dropped from 1200 feet (AGL) or so, and usually not when dropped below that. But then - sometimes it DOES seem to randomly explode when dropped below 500 ft AGL or so.

    Does anyone know the magic formula? Is there a certain altitude where it becomes armed, a certain velocity it must hit at, or something else?

    There are a couple of interesting historical articles online with info about the bomb:

    https://www.bulletpicker.com/bomb_-2...1_-mk-2_-.html

    https://stephentaylorhistorian.files...e-ordnance.pdf (p. 43-48 for the bomb and 193-198 for the fuses).

    They mention it is armor piercing, designed to penetrate heavily armored targets such as capital ships, and does not detonate until after the target is penetrated. Also No. 30 is a tail fuze.

    This page has more detailed information about British WW2-era fuzes: https://stephentaylorhistorian.com/2...nators-of-ww2/

    Assuming this is No. 30 fuze mentioned on p. 267 there, it is armed via approx. 480 vane revolutions, which happen when the bomb is dropped into the wind stream, causing the vane to rotate. I don't know how long it would take to rotate that vane 480 revolutions, but I'm guessing it is a few seconds at least, which might explain lack of detonation at low altitudes, as I observed.

    Presumably the arming mechanism via vane revolutions is to keep the bomb from being armed until it is dropped, and then to insure it is not armed until for a period afterwards so that the bomber is guaranteed to be a decent distance away before detonation is possible.

    However I don't know exactly how that might translate into implementation in CloD, and what it might take to ensure that bomb explodes when dropped. A certain height, a certain number of seconds, something else?

    Any ideas?
    Last edited by TWC_Flug; Jan-27-2023 at 00:04.
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    Re: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    Another interesting topic, thank you TWC_Flug.

    Did you test under SinglePlayer or under MultiPlayer conditions?

    Did you double check the preconditions, i.e. difficulty:RealisticBombing?

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    Re: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    This bomb needs to drop about 600m before it is armed. If you want to use this bomb I recommend you do it from 5000m using the bombsight. At that altitude you are above most AA.

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    Re: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    This bomb needs to drop about 600m before it is armed. If you want to use this bomb I recommend you do it from 5000m using the bombsight. At that altitude you are above most AA.
    Thanks. I'm guessing arming the detonator via vane rotations is modeled somehow. So there would be a certain number of seconds after it is dropped that it is armed, but depending on how exactly it is modeled it could vary a fair amount depending on airspeed at the moment of drop and so on.


    FWIW from the small amount of reading I just did, it does look like most armor piercing type bombs, or the later giant bunker busters and "earthquake bombs" like Tallboy and Grand Slam - which are the same basic idea taken to the nth degree - were designed to be dropped from fairly high up so that they could develop enough speed/kinetic energy to actually penetrate the armor as designed.

    The Disney Bomb was the same concept take even further - a rocket fired for the last few seconds before penetration, creating an even higher entrance velocity.

    Anyway, all this came because we're looking to use more of the available larger bombs in the current TWC campaign, and when I dropped the Wellington 2000 pounders from low altitude (which seems to be a preferred tactic by most of our active bomber pilots - they don't like being spotted on radar and intercepted for some reason) I noticed they didn't explode.

    FWIW the giant bombers on the Blue side don't seem to have the same problem - they are more on a timed fuse, so when diving or dropping from low altitude they will go off after 11 seconds regardless.

    That is to say - if they hit the ground after 1 second they will then wait 10 additional seconds, then explode.

    Whereas the Wellington fuse does seem to stop counting once it hits the ground. So if it's armed when it hits the ground, it explodes. But if not - then it never will explode. Thus the need to fly some minimum altitude when dropping these large bombs.

    FYI I found it would drop pretty reliably at 1500ft/460 meters or above.
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    Re: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Flug View Post
    FWIW the giant bombers on the Blue side don't seem to have the same problem - they are more on a timed fuse, so when diving or dropping from low altitude they will go off after 11 seconds regardless.

    That is to say - if they hit the ground after 1 second they will then wait 10 additional seconds, then explode.
    You are correct wrt the SC-type general purpose bombs. For those you have the choice between a fuse delay of 0 sec, 8 sec, or 14 sec (automatic for dive bombing).

    The AP-type armor piercing/bunker buster bombs can only be set for high alt drops, >1000m. The fuse delay can be 0 sec or 8 sec. They behave like the 2000 lbs bombs of the Wellington.

    I never really found a significant difference when using the AP bombs (maybe for large cruiser ships?). Although I usually drop from >5000m, I prefer to go with the SC-type bombs as they can be used both at high alt and low alt. At least you have the flexibility to change tactics during your run, depending on the situation.
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    Re: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    Great discussion and makes sense with the fuse timings.

    Really looking forward to trying a 2k with Wimpey.
    More toys to play with.
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    Re: Wellington 2000lb AP bomb - minimum altitude, speed, ? to detonate?

    Fragmentation and concussion bombs work differently. The fragmentation bomb has a smaller charge but more metal to fragment and fly off in all directions.

    The sim models each piece of shrapnel individually. Some larger chunks of shrapnel will penetrate heavy armour, like on warships.

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