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Thread: Revisisting COD

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    Revisisting COD

    Hi, after reading Fighter Boys by Patrick Bishop I decided to try IL2 COD again. I normally fly a lot in MSFS in the AH Spitfire MkIa and Flying Irons MkIX. The later claims to have the most accurate flight model possible with very good tail dragger behaviour and real reaction to torque and p factor. I fly Cessna 150 in the real world.

    Flying the Hurricane (Rotol) and Spitfire Mk1a (100 oct) in quick missions I noticed some things.

    Flying with complex engine modelling, 2650 rpm max, radiator open (not overheating), watching boost:

    - both the Hurricane and Spitfire stall very easy (too quick?) without warning. I would expect clear warning and buffeting and not having to watch speed all the time.
    - both aircraft seem to be much slower than the BF109E4 even in a turning fight. Expected for the hurricane but the 109 also pulls away from the spit even in level flight very quickly.
    - in the quick mission dogfights with 6 against 6, five AI spits are shot down very quickly and I manage to score some hits but soon have multiple 109's on my tail. I cannot out turn them.
    - take off, landing, level flight/trim is no problem
    - and of course the super sniper gunners in bombers and the 110 that hit you from miles away with perfect hits on the radiator or engine with the first single bullet. Approaching bombers is always
    lethal.

    What am I doing wrong?
    Last edited by dwarfflyer; Sep-15-2023 at 09:17.

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    Re: Revisisting COD

    not sure about the spitfire i flew 109s mostly, started replaying CloD last week
    from what i remember AI gunners are dead shots the way most bring down bombers is to be fast get some rounds in and bug out
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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Quote Originally Posted by dwarfflyer View Post
    - and of course the super sniper gunners in bombers and the 110 that hit you from miles away with perfect hits on the radiator or engine with the first single bullet. Approaching bombers is always
    lethal.

    What am I doing wrong?
    I'm not defending the sniper gunners at all, but in my 'campaigns' ('The hardest day' + 'For your freedom and ours' in the download section) that I made, I set the bombers to the minimum skill to give some more gameplay. In my tests I found it was easy enough to 'mostly' avoid destruction providing I did slashing attacks from up high to the side down onto the engine nearest me and then continue out the other side. i.e. never be on the six at all if I could avoid it. Also head-on and shoot the pilot seems to work of course, just don't overfly behind, break early to the side and avoid flying through the rest of the formation.

    I think my campaigns should work ok still, there was an update that meant I had to change some the mission code, but as far as I am aware they still work.
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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Quote Originally Posted by dwarfflyer View Post
    Hi, after reading Fighter Boys by Patrick Bishop I decided to try IL2 COD again. I normally fly a lot in MSFS in the AH Spitfire MkIa and Flying Irons MkIX. The later claims to have the most accurate flight model possible with very good tail dragger behaviour and real reaction to torque and p factor. I fly Cessna 150 in the real world.

    Flying the Hurricane (Rotol) and Spitfire Mk1a (100 oct) in quick missions I noticed some things.

    Flying with complex engine modelling, 2650 rpm max, radiator open (not overheating), watching boost:

    - both the Hurricane and Spitfire stall very easy (too quick?) without warning. I would expect clear warning and buffeting and not having to watch speed all the time.
    - both aircraft seem to be much slower than the BF109E4 even in a turning fight. Expected for the hurricane but the 109 also pulls away from the spit even in level flight very quickly.
    - in the quick mission dogfights with 6 against 6, five AI spits are shot down very quickly and I manage to score some hits but soon have multiple 109's on my tail. I cannot out turn them.
    - take off, landing, level flight/trim is no problem
    - and of course the super sniper gunners in bombers and the 110 that hit you from miles away with perfect hits on the radiator or engine with the first single bullet. Approaching bombers is always
    lethal.

    What am I doing wrong?

    From personal experience, flying the Quick Missions will drive you nuts, they are frustrating. I still use them for practice and testing, but I have set them up to fly the way I want, and they can still frustrate me. Multiplayer servers for some reason are more accurate IMO.

    Try this….. Set up the Spit. IA 100 Oct. to these settings… Throttle 110%, Pitch to 90% and Rad to 65%. These settings will but the engine at around 2850 rpm and keep the water temp under 120 degrees except in a long climb. The Spit will easily out turn the 109, but if the AI locks on your six at a specific distance all bets are off. I’d judge the distance at about 150 meters. Even 110’s can’t be out turned at times! Usually when they come down on you and start their turn early. And that reminds me of the last thing I wanted to share with you… Vision. You need a good monitor, good head tracking, or the ability to look around quickly and often. You need to stay ahead of the bad guys.

    Tail-gunners. Don’t loiter on their six, you have between 2 to 4 seconds before they get deadly. Stay well back, I have my guns set to converge at 260 yards. Once you get inside 200 yards they are more likely to hit you. Not all gunners are expert.. some missions are, some aren't, most vary the gunners rating.

    And the last thing, keep asking questions on this forum, it will save you a lot of time.

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    Re: Revisisting COD

    In the Battle of Britain Hurricanes were using 100 octane, so you should use that version, not the standard 87 octane Hurricane Rotol.

    Don't fly the earlier two pitch versions of the Spits/Hurris... i.e. the Spit I 100 octane, or Hurricane DH-520 100 octane... they are much more difficult to fly successfully.

    In order to get the most out of your RAF fighters, you need to fly them at 3000 rpm and +12 boost once you enter a dogfight. The trick is, they will overheat after a few minutes at this power/rpm setting. So you need to back off on the boost to +6 after a while. If you are running +12, then yes, you should open the rad fully... but if you are running lower boost and rpm you can close down the rad. Typically I run 75% open at +6/3000 rpm... 50% open at +6/2750 rpm. Note the RAF gave clearance for +6/2750 rpm as climb settings when using 100 octane. In fact, that should be your standard cruise setting when not in combat... your temperatures will drop to normal. Max temps are 120 degrees for radiator and 95 degrees for oil... keep them below those.

    When attempting to turn with the 109's, remember the aircraft with more energy/speed can use that energy to improve their turn. So a 109 which is dropping in on you can stay with your avoidance turn for quite a while. (as long as it is not going too fast) Remember also not to yank to hard on your stick when turning onto a 109... use a lag turn approach instead of a lead turn.... i.e. you put your nose on the target aircraft's tail or just behind it, not ahead of the nose. If you pull too hard you will exhaust your energy and stall out. A lag pursuit will take longer before you line up a shot, but you will not be out of energy and close to a stall.

    You say you are not getting any stall warning.... you should be able to hear buffeting sounds as the stall approaches. Remember to set all your ingame sounds to 100%... except turn the music to zero. Set the overall level that you hear in your headphones or speakers with your windows mixer. If you do not have the ingame sounds set to 100%, then you may not hear things like buffet or bullets hitting your aircraft.

    Try my suggestions and the other suggestions here and come back to report. And practice, practice, practice... this is not a game you can jump into and be a Stud hero... you need to get a feel for the aircraft and learn how they behave.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwarfflyer View Post
    Hi, after reading Fighter Boys by Patrick Bishop I decided to try IL2 COD again. I normally fly a lot in MSFS in the AH Spitfire MkIa and Flying Irons MkIX. The later claims to have the most accurate flight model possible with very good tail dragger behaviour and real reaction to torque and p factor. I fly Cessna 150 in the real world.

    Flying the Hurricane (Rotol) and Spitfire Mk1a (100 oct) in quick missions I noticed some things.

    Flying with complex engine modelling, 2650 rpm max, radiator open (not overheating), watching boost:

    - both the Hurricane and Spitfire stall very easy (too quick?) without warning. I would expect clear warning and buffeting and not having to watch speed all the time.
    - both aircraft seem to be much slower than the BF109E4 even in a turning fight. Expected for the hurricane but the 109 also pulls away from the spit even in level flight very quickly.
    - in the quick mission dogfights with 6 against 6, five AI spits are shot down very quickly and I manage to score some hits but soon have multiple 109's on my tail. I cannot out turn them.
    - take off, landing, level flight/trim is no problem
    - and of course the super sniper gunners in bombers and the 110 that hit you from miles away with perfect hits on the radiator or engine with the first single bullet. Approaching bombers is always
    lethal.

    What am I doing wrong?
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; Sep-15-2023 at 20:28.

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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    In the Battle of Britain Hurricanes were using 100 octane, so you should use that version, not the standard 87 octane Hurricane Rotol.

    Don't fly the earlier two pitch versions of the Spits/Hurris... i.e. the Spit I 100 octane, or Hurricane DH-520 100 octane... they are much more difficult to fly successfully.

    In order to get the most out of your RAF fighters, you need to fly them at 3000 rpm and +12 boost once you enter a dogfight. The trick is, they will overheat after a few minutes at this power/rpm setting. So you need to back off on the boost to +6 after a while. If you are running +12, then yes, you should open the rad fully... but if you are running lower boost and rpm you can close down the rad. Typically I run 75% open at +6/3000 rpm... 50% open at +6/2750 rpm. Note the RAF gave clearance for +6/2750 rpm as climb settings when using 100 octane. In fact, that should be your standard cruise setting when not in combat... your temperatures will drop to normal. Max temps are 120 degrees for radiator and 95 degrees for oil... keep them below those.

    When attempting to turn with the 109's, remember the aircraft with more energy/speed can use that energy to improve their turn. So a 109 which is dropping in on you can stay with your avoidance turn for quite a while. (as long as it is not going too fast) Remember also not to yank to hard on your stick when turning onto a 109... use a lag turn approach instead of a lead turn.... i.e. you put your nose on the target aircraft's tail or just behind it, not ahead of the nose. If you pull too hard you will exhaust your energy and stall out. A lag pursuit will take longer before you line up a shot, but you will not be out of energy and close to a stall.

    You say you are not getting any stall warning.... you should be able to hear buffeting sounds as the stall approaches. Remember to set all your ingame sounds to 100%... except turn the music to zero. Set the overall level that you hear in your headphones or speakers with your windows mixer. If you do not have the ingame sounds set to 100%, then you may not hear things like buffet or bullets hitting your aircraft.

    Try my suggestions and the other suggestions here and come back to report. And practice, practice, practice... this is not a game you can jump into and be a Stud hero... you need to get a feel for the aircraft and learn how they behave.

    Thanks all,

    A few more remarks,

    I read in many Spitfire books that the Spit is quite nose heavy on the ground and with careless braking will tip. Not so in CLOD. The brakes are far too weak for that and make turning awkward. MSFS is much better in that aspect. I fly real world from EHHV with grass runways that are bumpy but never as bumpy as in CLOD. No undercarriage would survive CLOD fields in the real world. Mixture settings: take off with a lean mixture? Overheating guaranteed! But not in CLOD....

    Overall CLOD as an accurate simulator has still a long way to go. Is there a difference between the flight models in the older single missions and multiplayer? The aircraft seem to be more responsive in multiplayer?!

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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Quote Originally Posted by dwarfflyer View Post
    Mixture settings: take off with a lean mixture? Overheating guaranteed! But not in CLOD....
    Thanks for your feedback.

    Here's a thread that will explain the mixture controls of the early Marks of Spits and Hurries:

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post193803



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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Thanks for your feedback.

    Here's a thread that will explain the mixture controls of the early Marks of Spits and Hurries:

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post193803

    Snapper,

    Thanks, now this is clear. Weird however that a rich mixture shows as 0% in the panel. Probably the reversed position of the mixture lever in the RAF aircraft. Default is always lever forward is rich.


    Paul

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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Revisistance is futile...
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    Re: Revisisting COD

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    Revisistance is futile...
    I have trouble connecting to some servers and playing the 303 campaign. Tobruk.100 is missing? I suppose some functionality is lost if you do not own the desert wings addition?

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    Cool Re: Revisisting COD

    S!~

    If it helps- Spitfire 1a Oct / Spit II - Hurricane II - I run 92% to 110% throttle . Pitch is relative to throttle - ie ; 110% - rpm's to run between 2650 and 2800 ish'. There really is no - 'do this with these settings - as its constantly changing - both in combat and general flying. The idea that there is seems silly to me. Example - I ride vintage motorcycles and every one of them have a similar feel- as do the British aircraft. But I dont run the hell out of them - until I need to. Save your engine until you're in the sh#t - and fight like you own the skies. You will need a 'cool' engine and head - and the confidence to not get trapped without both speed and altitude. But if you do - run 110%- boost cut-out - and lower your pitch until you see your speed level- then add 10-15%. What? its called flying - just like the motorcycles are riding- you have to work it - you have to adjust - almost constantly. Or cruise around at max. settings- hauling #ss everywhere -and wonder why your plane blew its rad. This game is SO fun - but its a bit of work- good work.
    As a sim pilot many times forced to fly German aircraft in order to balance sides- I was surprised to see how fast the Hurricanes are- and the Tomahawk P40. The BF109 can accelerate away a bit faster- and dive barely better- but cannot outturn either a Spit or a Hurri- thats why they climb and roll to angle inside Allied aircraft. Same story different day- often its the pilot. But dropping ones pitch down fine - gets great speed- in fact many of us 109 pilots - will disengage the auto prop pitch when diving or in a get away run. Low pitch + full power - no turning = great speed.
    Good luck and kick #ass.

    S!~ AKA_Blasto
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