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Thread: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

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    Exclamation Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Hey everyone,

    Heads up! All leave and passes are cancelled!

    Polak and the OBT~ boys have sent us Adlertag #5 to be played on the ATAG Axis vs Allies Public Server this coming Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT.

    Stay tuned at this location for further details.

    Cheers,

    Snapper


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    VR: None
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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Moin comrades,

    I am ready as always!
    Gruß Amarok

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    As promised, please find below the briefings for RAF and Luftwaffe. Again, many thanks to Polak for supplying us this wonderful event and a special nod to Marlow for tweaking the very detailed briefings from Polak.





    ADLERTAG MISSION 5 - 'THE CLASH OF TITANS'
    Royal Air Force - RED
    Thursday August 15, 1940.
    10.00 in the morning.
    SCRAMBLE!!!
    Situational Report
    Gentlemen, this is the third day of this great German offensive to bring us to our knees and force us to the negotiating table.
    However, despite terrible losses and horrible destruction on the ground we are still resisting the invader!
    As you well know, yesterday targets in Kent were heavily bombed by enemy aircraft who seem to be arriving in ever greater numbers...
    Now the battle seems to be heading towards our sector...
    We have intelligence that Luftwaffe aircraft are currently regrouping over France, preparing to launch a raid on Hampshire.
    Our radar stations have just detected two formations regrouping in the Le Havre sector (AO.5)These are probably Ju 88's from I./LG 1 and Ju 87 Stukas from IV.(St)/LG 1. Radar reports these aircraft as flying between 10,000 and 20,000 feet.
    Interception of enemy communications leads us to believe that these aircraft will leave the Le Havre sector heading north west on a course of 315 degrees.
    Our pilots are warned to be extremely careful. Bf 109's of Jagdgeschwader 27 and Bf 110's of Zerstörergeschwader 2 seem to be present in large numbers as escort!
    Take off again, Gentlemen.......and immediately and return to the battle.


    PRIMARY OBJECTIVES:
    1, Intercept these two German raids before they can drop their bombs.
    Stop them before they can reach the coast.
    2, Organize coastal patrols and interception raids over the Channel.
    3, Protect all airfields between Shoreham (AM.19) and Southampton (AF.21) as well as the ports of Southampton and Portsmouth.


    SECONDARY OBJECTIVES:
    1, Protect the Royal Navy vessels currently patrolling south of the Isle of Wight.
    2, A military camp has been created on the Isle of Wight. ( AF.18) It must also be protected.
    3, Ensure the safety of the radar stations at Ventnor (AE.17) and Poling. (AK.19)


    Available Aircraft
    Hurricane 1 (Rotol) Hurricane 1 (Rotol 100 octane) Hurricane I (DH 5-20),
    Hurricane I (DH 5-20100oct)
    No 601 Squadron at RAF Tangmere (AJ.20)
    No 609 Squadron at RAF Lee on Solent (AG.19)
    No 213 Squadron at RAF Hamble (AF.20)


    Spitfire Ia, Spitfire Ia (100oct)
    No 602 Squadron at RAF Westhampnett (AJ.20) and RAF Ford (AK.19)
    No 609 Squadron at RAF Gosport (AG.19)
    No 152 Squadron at RAF Southampton airfield (AF.21)


    Radar Menus
    TAB 7 1 can provide you with the position of enemy aircraft relative to your position, if you are close enough.
    TAB 4 menu gives you access to 'refuel and rearm.'
    To use ' refuel and rearm'......undamaged aircraft must be stopped at an airfield, with engine, magnetos, and fuel cocks switched off.


    'GENTLEMEN! GOD SPEED!'


    LUFTWAFFE - BLUE
    Thursday August 15, 1940.
    10.00 in the morning.
    Situationsbericht
    Meine Kameraden: It is now the third day of our aerial offensive against England and its redoubted RAF.
    It seems obvious that the British will not be able to resist us much longer! According to our intelligence services, they only have around 450 fighter aircraft left!
    That is why we are going to further increase our air raids and force them to capitulate!
    You must plan to escort our next two bomber raids over Hampshire.


    PRIMARY OBJECTIVES (Fighter pilots):
    All Jagdgeschwader 27 and Zerstörergeschwader 2 fighter pilots must take off immediately and gain altitude above the Seine estuary! (AO.5) Remember: there are 2 Bomber raids to escort:
    1, Rendez vous at 6000 meters (AO.5) at 10.30 with the first group of Ju 88 bombers from I./LG You will escort them to their target and until their return to France. Today, our heavy bombers will be attacking targets deep inside enemy territory. You have a long journey to protect them so be economical with fuel!
    2, You must also rendez vous at 3000 meters (AO.5) at 10h55 with a second group comprised of Ju 87 Stukas from IV.(St)/LG 1. Escort them to their target and until their return to France.


    Fighter pilots must be aware that:
    A group of Bf110 fighter bombers from I./ZG2 will assemble in Cherbourg sector. They will then head north at very low altitude to try to pass under the detection of British radar.Theirobjectives are targets in the Solent.
    Do not escort these aircraft, since you may expose them to detection by radar.
    However, if you see them on their way back and if they are attacked, you can help them. It seems our proud Bf 110s may be outclassed by enemy fighters in close combat.
    If you miss the rendez vous with the bombers, they will remain unescorted over England, and you will be solely responsible for the fate of your comrades!
    Organize close escort above the bombers!
    Some fighters patrols will nevertheless be able to go above our objectives to deny access to RAF aircraft. To achieve this, aircraft will patrol the enemy coast from Shoreham (AM.19) to Southampton. (AF.21)


    SECONDARY OBJECTIVES (Bomber pilots):
    1, Two groups of Royal Navy vessels are currently patrolling the south of the Isle of Wight. Sink them!
    2, Several tankers are currently docked at the Oil Depot at Southampton (AE.20). Destroy those tankers.
    3, Other legitimate targets:
    a, The Electrical Equipment Factory at Basingstoke (AG.24)
    b, The Military Camp (AF.18)
    c, Radar Stations at Poling (AK.19) and Ventnor (AE.17)


    Available aircraft


    Bf109 E1, Bf109 E3, Bf109 E4
    1/JG27 at Plumetot airfield (AL.3)
    11/JG27 at Crépon airfield (AK.3)
    111/JG27 at Le Havre airfield (AO.5)


    Bf110 C2/C4/C4B/C4 late/C7
    1/ZG 2 at Deauville airfield (AP.4)


    Ju 87 B2 Stukas.
    1./St.G 1 at Théville airfield (AD.7)


    Ju 88 A1
    1./LG 1 at Caen Carpiquet (AK.1)


    Radar Menus
    TAB 7 1 can provide you with the position of enemy aircraft relative to your position, if you are close enough.
    TAB 4 menu gives you access to 'refuel and rearm.'
    To use ' refuel and rearm'......undamaged aircraft must be stopped at an airfield, with engine, magnetos, and fuel cocks switched off.


    'VIEL GLÜCK, EUCH ALLEN'


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    VR: None
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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Hello,

    Let's gooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

    Visual brief below

    Better resolution here: https://easyupload.io/1n59kj

    LEGEND

    Unnamed and gray airfields are not available for spawn but are available for landing

    Green circle around airfield means fighters available

    Blue circle around airfield means bombers available

    Orange circle around airfield means fighter bombers available

    Compass dial on airfields is aligned with the middle of the longest runway (zoom in to see the numbers)

    Red icons are stuff the blues have to destroy

    Blue icons are stuff the reds have to destroy

    ALL PATHS AND LOCATIONS ARE APPROXIMATIONS BASED ON THE TEXT BRIEFING
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Ready
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    VR: Reverb G2 and G1 (Windows Mixed Reality HMD), SteamVR res: 2192x2144
    Nvidia driver version: 537.58

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Hoping to make this one , great area on the map too , close to home and certainly close to my heart .

    We mustn't let The Dark Side ​prevail !!!! .

    "Rules are put in place for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools" - J W Thomas

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Good morning,

    present in flight this evening.

    I suggest to all Reds to read the tactics developed by our intelligence officers on the ATAG page:

    Adlertag #5 - an organized hunt is a fun hunt
    information and maps are clear and useful.

    Good luck to everyone

    OBT~Brunov
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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Gives me 10hrs to get setup on new PC and blow some serious cobwebs out lol.

    See you all there comrades!
    System Specs:
    CPU AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8 Core 16 Thread Up To 5.0GHz AM5;
    Motherboard Gigabyte X670 Gaming X AX V2 AM5 ATX Desktop Motherboard;
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    Graphics Card ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 4080 16GB Trinity Black Edition;
    OS Drive Crucial P3 Plus PCIe Gen4 NVMe M.2 SSD - 4TB up to 5000/4200MB/s Read/Write;
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    CPU Cooler SilverStone IceGem 240P ARGB 240mm Liquid CPU Cooler - Black.

    Operating System Microsoft Windows 11 Home Retail 64-bit Eng Intl USB.

    Screen Size 32" 1080p Monitor

    When on DCS I use a HP Reverb G2 headset.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    PRIMARY OBJECTIVES (Fighter pilots):

    Intercept these two German raids
    Escort them to their target and until their return to France.


    shot_20240203_143043.jpeg shot_20240203_145826.jpeg

    SECONDARY OBJECTIVES (Bomber pilots):

    Radar Stations at Poling (AK.19) and Ventnor (AE.17)

    shot_20240203_141440.jpeg shot_20240203_141720.jpeg

    Two groups of Royal Navy vessels are currently patrolling the south of the Isle of Wight. Sink them!

    shot_20240203_142522.jpeg shot_20240203_142550.jpeg

    Several tankers are currently docked at the Oil Depot at Southampton (AE.20). Destroy those tankers

    shot_20240203_142319.jpg

    The Electrical Equipment Factory at Basingstoke (AG.24)

    shot_20240203_142407.jpg

    The Military Camp (AF.18)


    shot_20240203_142056.jpg

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Board of silhouettes of German planes.

    In order to identify German bombers, here is an authentic identification plate from 1940 kept in the Orange Air Base 115 museum.

    Unfortunately, there is not that of the hunters which would have been more useful to us.

    German plane shape.jpg
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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Thanks for the game everyone, good flying
    Author of the Their Finest Hour, Their Greatest Challenge, Desert Hawks, Eagles over Tobruk, On Ne Passe Pas!, and Rising from the Ashes campaigns for Cliffs of Dover Blitz and Desert Wings - Tobruk.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Once again, thanks to everyone, organizers and participants.
    First come ,last left
    My rig : Win 10 pro 64 bit; Mb Gigabyte B560M AORUS PRO ,I5 11400F @4,2GHz,gc,GIGABYTE RTX 3070 TI 8 Gb,32 GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR4 ,SSD Transcend 240 Gb, Gigabyte G32QC ,VKB Gladiator Pro,MMJOY2 home made pedals and gas , TrackIR 5. Steam ID: YR-DAN

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Hey everyone,

    Heads up! All leave and passes are cancelled!

    Polak and the OBT~ boys have sent us Adlertag #5 to be played on the ATAG Axis vs Allies Public Server this coming Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT.

    Stay tuned at this location for further details.

    Cheers,

    Snapper
    Hy Snapper. I received a msg frm Pernix inviting me to enroll myself among the Beta testers. I am late becaue I could not find the credentials for the site.
    However here I am now, waiting for instructions.
    Regards.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Hi all,

    A big thank you to all the participants, it was a truly successful evening!!!

    A little debriefing is necessary,

    At 10:05 Hrs the pilots from Squadron 609 took off from Lee on Solent for the Hurricanes (OBT~Mikmak Blue leader) and from Gosport for the Spitfires (Atag Marlow Red leader).

    shot_20240204_211340.jpeg shot_20240204_211700.jpeg
    Around 15 planes, 5 Hurricanes and 10 Spitfires meet above the Sandown airfield, heading south to try to find this German raid.

    Mid Channel we turn left towards Le Havre, Red leader announces a pair of Bf 109s above us...

    shot_20240204_212457.jpeg

    Despite a lower altitude, Spitfires in numerical superiority manage to bring down the 109s who are attempting an attack on the Hurricanes further down...
    Blue leader breaks up his group and we can see a smoking Bf 109 returning to France and his wingmen moving away.

    shot_20240204_213733.jpeg

    First radar contact, enemy bombers are announced south of our position, the radio crackles and Red leader announces :Tally ho enemy bombers at two o'clock low:

    Last turn to the right we are well placed above the German bombers but many contrails are visible in our 9 o'clock high.
    A first yellow nose slips between the Hurricanes and attacks Blue 3 which maneuvers so that Blue leader opens fire, water radiator perforated and we see him heading towards Normandy.

    shot_20240205_012622.jpeg

    The Luftwaffe pilots are doing a good job, each maneuver makes us lose speed and their damn Ju 88s are fast...
    The radio is silent and the sky is calmer, the friends in Spitfires are doing a great job up there!!! they cleared the way for us.

    We only manage to catch up the Ju 88s to the west of the Isle of Wight, but a pair of Bf 109s follow us a little further down, we maneuver to place ourselves in their six, these guys are good pilots and decide to remove...

    shot_20240204_221243.jpeg

    We are again too far behind the enemy raid... which splits into two groups, we finally manage to attack them north of Southampton, Spitfires are also there!!! Nice shot Snapper!!!

    shot_20240204_223124.jpeg shot_20240204_224951.jpeg

    We see many bombers in distress, when suddenly a pair of Bf109s dive on us... tracer bullets and Blue 5 diving towards the ground... killed...

    shot_20240204_224516.jpeg
    It's time to do RTB, Blue 3 is injured, Blue 4 is out of fuel, everybody out of ammo...
    Last edited by OBT~Polak; Feb-04-2024 at 19:37.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Perfect debreifing, Polak !

    i replay again, this evening in my mind !

    I was Blue 4 and i finish to land like a glidder in Ford airport.

    We do a second run and the OBT's Give me the lead.
    We take off, from Lee on Solen, and climb at angel 4. We make patrol over Isle of Withe, but we don't see no bandits, only 2 spitfire in pair.
    After 20 minutes patrol, we decided to land in Sandow, OBT~Polak was injured by ...is wingman (I think there are in love and fly to close....)

    Thank's Polak and all players
    Last edited by brunov; Feb-05-2024 at 03:07.
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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by OBT~Polak View Post
    Hi all,

    A big thank you to all the participants, it was a truly successful evening!!!

    A little debriefing is necessary,

    At 10:05 Hrs the pilots from Squadron 609 took off from Lee on Solent for the Hurricanes (OBT~Mikmak Blue leader) and from Gosport for the Spitfires (Atag Marlow Red leader).

    shot_20240204_211340.jpeg shot_20240204_211700.jpeg
    Around 15 planes, 5 Hurricanes and 10 Spitfires meet above the Sandown airfield, heading south to try to find this German raid.

    Mid Channel we turn left towards Le Havre, Red leader announces a pair of Bf 109s above us...

    shot_20240204_212457.jpeg

    Despite a lower altitude, Spitfires in numerical superiority manage to bring down the 109s who are attempting an attack on the Hurricanes further down...
    Blue leader breaks up his group and we can see a smoking Bf 109 returning to France and his wingmen moving away.

    shot_20240204_213733.jpeg

    First radar contact, enemy bombers are announced south of our position, the radio crackles and Red leader announces :Tally ho enemy bombers at two o'clock low:

    Last turn to the right we are well placed above the German bombers but many contrails are visible in our 9 o'clock high.
    A first yellow nose slips between the Hurricanes and attacks Blue 3 which maneuvers so that Blue leader opens fire, water radiator perforated and we see him heading towards Normandy.

    shot_20240205_012622.jpeg

    The Luftwaffe pilots are doing a good job, each maneuver makes us lose speed and their damn Ju 88s are fast...
    The radio is silent and the sky is calmer, the friends in Spitfires are doing a great job up there!!! they cleared the way for us.

    We only manage to catch up the Ju 88s to the west of the Isle of Wight, but a pair of Bf 109s follow us a little further down, we maneuver to place ourselves in their six, these guys are good pilots and decide to remove...

    shot_20240204_221243.jpeg

    We are again too far behind the enemy raid... which splits into two groups, we finally manage to attack them north of Southampton, Spitfires are also there!!! Nice shot Snapper!!!

    shot_20240204_223124.jpeg shot_20240204_224951.jpeg

    We see many bombers in distress, when suddenly a pair of Bf109s dive on us... tracer bullets and Blue 5 diving towards the ground... killed...

    shot_20240204_224516.jpeg
    It's time to do RTB, Blue 3 is injured, Blue 4 is out of fuel, everybody out of ammo...
    Any chance of mid- channel airstarts for blue as Crepon and Le Harve is a long flight, also how do i find the password for blue tactics? cheers..

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by brunov View Post
    Board of silhouettes of German planes.

    In order to identify German bombers, here is an authentic identification plate from 1940 kept in the Orange Air Base 115 museum.

    Unfortunately, there is not that of the hunters which would have been more useful to us.

    German plane shape.jpg
    Interesting. It shows the older model of Do 17, which wasn’t in frontline service in 1940 (AFAIK), but shows the Do 215, which was basically just the Do 17 Z with DB601 engines. It also shows the Ju 87 A with its distinctive undercarriage, and I don’t believe that was in frontline service at that time either - or, if it was, the B was still more numerous.

    Not exactly surprising, though - wouldn’t have been that easy to get up-to-date information on enemy aircraft back then.

    On a related note, some Allied pilots in the Battle of Britain claimed to have shot down He 113s, which were German single-seat fighters that didn’t actually exist. Goebbels’ propagandists had taken photos of He 100 fighters - which had been rejected by the Luftwaffe - and passed them off as photos of operational units using the ‘He 113’. The disinformation was so effective that Allied pilots mistook Bf 109s for He 113s. However, this ultimately meaningless confusion was all that the disinformation was effective at - to this day, nobody actually knows what the point of it was!

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybermat47 View Post
    On a related note, some Allied pilots in the Battle of Britain claimed to have shot down He 113s, which were German single-seat fighters that didn’t actually exist. Goebbels’ propagandists had taken photos of He 100 fighters - which had been rejected by the Luftwaffe - and passed them off as photos of operational units using the ‘He 113’. The disinformation was so effective that Allied pilots mistook Bf 109s for He 113s. However, this ultimately meaningless confusion was all that the disinformation was effective at - to this day, nobody actually knows what the point of it was!
    Yes.
    I am at the moment reading the story/ biography of BoB Doe ('Fighter Pilot': written by his daughter). I was wondering why some of the claims that were made by (one of his) squadrons were of the He 113.

    By the way: it is quite a good read, and is informative. I would recommend it as a good book. It fails towards the end of the book though, with maybe too much emphasis on personal issues, and on coverage his of non-combat RAF career. It is still worth reading though, and difficult to put down. He seems like someone I would have liked to know. He would have been a great boss. His men though so too! 'Seems like he was a great guy.
    Last edited by major_setback; Feb-05-2024 at 10:11.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2673&dateline=1390351127

    Principle skinner
    .

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by checkhov View Post
    ............ how do i find the password for blue tactics? cheers..

    The Red and Blue Tactical Planning Forums

    You bring up a good point, Checkhov.

    We introduced these planning Forums, one for each air force, so that pilots could have somewhere to discuss strategy without giving away their plans to the other side. Blues have no access to the Red Forum and Red pilots cannot access the Blue Forum.

    Of course, if pilots change sides they may well end up knowing both passwords but I am sure we can all rely on them 'keeping Mum' and maintaining the spirit of the Event. It's far more realistic that we don't know exactly what the other side are planning and, just like the pilots back in Summer 1940, are forced to react and think 'on our feet.'
    It makes for a more exciting and unpredictable Event.

    If any Red pilots would like the password for the Red Tactical Planning Forum they can ask me or Snap' by Pm...... and we will 'wing it' your way.

    The Tactical Forums can be found on the Forum main page. Scroll down to 'Major On line Events'....click on that...... and you will see both Red and Blue Forums immediately below the big Red Title. Salute.....see you Wednesday!





    I know ATAG_ Snapper can give you the password for the Blue Tactical Forum, Checkhov. If you send him a Pm within the Forum he will send you the password.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Checkov - check your Private Mail!



    HP Omen Laptop 15, AMD Ryzen 5 5600H 16 GB DDR4 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU 6 GB VRAM Win 11 64 bit 22H2 (KB5020044), Nvidia GeForce Driver ver 527.56, TrackIR 5, Gear Falcon Trim Box, Gear Falcon Throttle Quadrant, TM16000 joystick, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Quadrant, Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals
    VR: None
    Installation path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Marlow View Post
    The Red and Blue Tactical Planning Forums
    We introduced these planning Forums, one for each air force, so that pilots could have somewhere to discuss strategy without giving away their plans to the other side. Blues have no access to the Red Forum and Red pilots cannot access the Blue Forum.

    Of course, if pilots change sides they may well end up knowing both passwords but I am sure we can all rely on them 'keeping Mum' and maintaining the spirit of the Event. It's far more realistic that we don't know exactly what the other side are planning and, just like the pilots back in Summer 1940, are forced to react and think 'on our feet.'
    It makes for a more exciting and unpredictable Event.

    If any Red pilots would like the password for the Red Tactical Planning Forum they can ask me or Snap' by Pm...... and we will 'wing it' your way.
    What sense does it make if, as in the last events, ALL information regarding start, altitude and goals is already known from the beginning for the opponent, in this case RED?

    In my opinion, only the potential targets should be known and nothing else!

    Only then do the planning forums make sense.
    Gruß Amarok

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarok View Post
    What sense does it make if, as in the last events, ALL information regarding start, altitude and goals is already known from the beginning for the opponent, in this case RED?

    In my opinion, only the potential targets should be known and nothing else!

    Only then do the planning forums make sense.
    You have made a valid point, players need to sign up for Blue or Red at the start of a mission no Tommy Turncoats! excuse the pun, that way less chance of a tatical advantage for anyone who wants to swap side halfway through, this should have been implemented at the very beginning of all the Aldertag events.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarok View Post
    What sense does it make if, as in the last events, ALL information regarding start, altitude and goals is already known from the beginning for the opponent, in this case RED?

    In my opinion, only the potential targets should be known and nothing else!

    Only then do the planning forums make sense.
    Hi Amarok,

    It is only me who knows the final objectives of the German bombers (the two big raids of Ju88 and Ju87 for Adlertag#5) they do not appear in the briefings, I do not communicate them to anyone including the OBT~Boys.

    Indeed you are right, the red pilots have a huge advantage in the briefing, they know in advance the position of the German planes, as it was the case during the Battle of Britain thanks to the Chain Home.

    This simulator is fantastic, the blue pilots must face the same problems than those of 1940, escorting slow bombers, being spotted by radar and taking the risk of being shot down far behind enemy lines, moreover the reds were more numerous on Saturday evening...

    You are absolutely right the mission of the blue is much more difficult in my opinion.

    Another point which gave the Reds the advantage on Saturday evening, when you came across us for example in the middle of the Channel there were 15 of us and all in audio communication against 2 Bf109s, that was a big advantage for us.

    We were regularly harassed by pair of fighters as well as isolated 109s, it was simpler for us to manage the situation (but not easy at all because many of us were shot down),

    and yet you did an incredible job I think, between 15 and 20 RAF fighters were shot down!!! and the Hurricanes took more than an hour to get close to your bombers.

    I know it's difficult to organize but if 10 or 15 Bf 109s are above the bombers and given the qualities of the blue pilots, I think the outcome of the battle would undoubtedly be different.

    If you find the missions difficult I take it as a compliment, Cliffs of Dover is the only simulator that allows such a great historical reconstruction.

    I assure you most sincerely that, at no time did I wish to penalize the blue side. (I fly blue more often than red and Bf 109 is my favorite plane)

    Wednesday evening to repeat the event we OBTs will fly Blue and there will be 6 of us I think, a few additional pilots and we will offer them a warm welcome

    Hoping to continue to see many of you participating in the events.

    Thank you all.
    Last edited by OBT~Polak; Feb-05-2024 at 19:39.

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Amarok said it but I am pretty sure a lot more are thinking it. I don't really think he was implying bias towards RED, just an unbalance in RED's favor, but I don't want to speak for the man. I do think that discussions regarding balancing are healthy and very interesting. They might even inspire mission creators to make even more outrageously fun events.

    The following is my take on how I personally feel the balance of these events is and it's a long read for 2024. It regards the Adlertag events exclusively because these are very complex and different from the usual online brawl and require completely different balancing.

    The problems of balancing an asymmetrical fight often emerge from perception. Reading the briefing it looks like the REDs hold all the advantages: the location of the incoming threat, it's altitude and it's type (giving them speed, travel time and capabilities). At first glance it looks unfair but there are many factors that progressively and subtly tip the scale. Let's imagine the following scenario: Adlertag #5 - 50 people online / 25 per side.

    The REDs have:
    - 25 human fighters
    - approximately 10-15 AI fighters on patrol (I think... I don't actually know how many there are but there are a few)
    - The start location, departure time and the type of BLUE bombers
    - noodle shooters

    RED force: approx 40 airplanes

    The BLUEs have:
    - 25 human fighters
    - approximately 5-10 AI fighters on patrol (I think... I don't actually know how many there are but there are a few)
    - approx 30 AI heavy bombers
    - approx 30 AI dive bombers
    - cannons

    BLUE force: approx 95 airplanes

    I am intentionally disregarding the secondary objectives because I believe those come into play when the server is almost full and in the last third of the event. The centerpiece of the event is the bomber raids.

    I know I am not good at the shooting and the flying but I doubt that there are more than 10 red players capable of taking down more than one heavy bomber, possibly two, before needing to rearm, using the 303s. This in itself ads to the balance.

    During the last one the REDs outnumbered the BLUEs 2-to-1. And even with such a numerical advantage the Stuka raid went through almost undisturbed and I believe one of the two Ju-88 groups got through unscathed. All the BLUEs had to do was put 5-6 escorts on top of the bombers (which they did) and that stalled a 15-plane attack force long enough for half of the bombers to survive.

    If, let's say, the start location and departure time of the bomber raids is unknown to RED players then the chance of an encounter, given the width of the Channel, comes down to luck and we might have an event where we might not find each other in order to shoot each other.

    I find these events to be very well balanced especially considering all of the subtle details that play a major role in this balancing. Sorry for the very long post I just really like the topic

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by SchiopulCiung View Post
    Amarok said it but I am pretty sure a lot more are thinking it. I don't really think he was implying bias towards RED, just an unbalance in RED's favor, but I don't want to speak for the man. I do think that discussions regarding balancing are healthy and very interesting. They might even inspire mission creators to make even more outrageously fun events.

    The following is my take on how I personally feel the balance of these events is and it's a long read for 2024. It regards the Adlertag events exclusively because these are very complex and different from the usual online brawl and require completely different balancing.

    The problems of balancing an asymmetrical fight often emerge from perception. Reading the briefing it looks like the REDs hold all the advantages: the location of the incoming threat, it's altitude and it's type (giving them speed, travel time and capabilities). At first glance it looks unfair but there are many factors that progressively and subtly tip the scale. Let's imagine the following scenario: Adlertag #5 - 50 people online / 25 per side.

    The REDs have:
    - 25 human fighters
    - approximately 10-15 AI fighters on patrol (I think... I don't actually know how many there are but there are a few)
    - The start location, departure time and the type of BLUE bombers
    - noodle shooters

    RED force: approx 40 airplanes

    The BLUEs have:
    - 25 human fighters
    - approximately 5-10 AI fighters on patrol (I think... I don't actually know how many there are but there are a few)
    - approx 30 AI heavy bombers
    - approx 30 AI dive bombers
    - cannons

    BLUE force: approx 95 airplanes

    I am intentionally disregarding the secondary objectives because I believe those come into play when the server is almost full and in the last third of the event. The centerpiece of the event is the bomber raids.

    I know I am not good at the shooting and the flying but I doubt that there are more than 10 red players capable of taking down more than one heavy bomber, possibly two, before needing to rearm, using the 303s. This in itself ads to the balance.

    During the last one the REDs outnumbered the BLUEs 2-to-1. And even with such a numerical advantage the Stuka raid went through almost undisturbed and I believe one of the two Ju-88 groups got through unscathed. All the BLUEs had to do was put 5-6 escorts on top of the bombers (which they did) and that stalled a 15-plane attack force long enough for half of the bombers to survive.

    If, let's say, the start location and departure time of the bomber raids is unknown to RED players then the chance of an encounter, given the width of the Channel, comes down to luck and we might have an event where we might not find each other in order to shoot each other.

    I find these events to be very well balanced especially considering all of the subtle details that play a major role in this balancing. Sorry for the very long post I just really like the topic
    there are no AI fighters on either side

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by OBT~Polak View Post
    there are no AI fighters on either side
    Ooops!

    I could swear I saw AI fighters mentioned as crashing or getting shot down in the server messages but now that you confirm there are none I think that memory might come from other events.

    So you don't use AI fighters to "thicken the sauce"... that's impressive Polak... very impressive

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    if the pilot ejects or is killed, sometimes the chat announce AI shotdown

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    Re: Adlertag #5 Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 20h00 GMT on ATAG Axis vs Allies Server

    Quote Originally Posted by SchiopulCiung View Post
    I could swear I saw AI fighters mentioned as crashing or getting shot down in the server messages but now that you confirm there are none I think that memory might come from other events.
    Nope, your memory is accurate, but there were still no AI aircraft.

    As soon as a player leaves an aircraft, it's considered to be an AI aircraft. This means that, if you shot me down and I was lucky enough to bail out, the event feed would look something like this:

    Cybermat47 in a Bf 109 E-4 () bailed out.

    AI in a Bf 109 E-4 () was shot down by SchiopolCiung's Hurricane I (Rotol 100 oct) ().


    I think this also happens if the pilot is killed and the player respawns in a new aircraft before their old one is destroyed.
    Last edited by Cybermat47; Feb-06-2024 at 07:24.
    Author of the Their Finest Hour, Their Greatest Challenge, Desert Hawks, Eagles over Tobruk, On Ne Passe Pas!, and Rising from the Ashes campaigns for Cliffs of Dover Blitz and Desert Wings - Tobruk.

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