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Thread: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ six..

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    A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ six..

    Gentlemen
    First of all: TF; thank you so very much indeed for your efforts - you've saved CoD!!
    Think you've raised the bar several notches and that BoS is going to get some serious competition

    I have only two important and one minor query to raise:
    1) Would it be within you capabilities to make CoD utilise both cards in SLI, or do this depend on Nvidia only?
    2) A/C semes to disappear at about 1500 - 2000 yards out, only to re-appear much closer, or further away. This makes dogfighting rather challenging...
    (I was kind of hoping that if I could utilise both my cards (GTX580's) then perhaps query 2 would sort itself out.)
    3) Is there any plans to render the six in the mirrors? (very minor issue indeed)

    Sincere regards

    BSS_Tintin

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Salute

    Welcome to Team Fusion and ATAG.

    Regarding seeing aircraft, read this thread:

    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ead.php?t=3991

    Regarding using multiple video cards, there are many who have enabled them successfully and there should be threads on the ATAG forums which point to how to set them up.

    Cheers Buzzsaw

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    buzzsaw, i followed your advices but still issue no. 2 remains for me. aircraft really "pop away" at a certain distance. i can easily replicate this issue with the dogfight-even quickmission.

    it seems that between the initial dot beeing loaded and the full model beeing loaded there is an "empty zone" in which you don't see anything.

    i once heard that there is a line in the config.ini that keeps the initial dot beeing loaded at all distances. do you know about it? it might be a solution...

    anyway, thank you very much for your efforts!

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Issue 2 depends on quality of your monitor and your graphic settings.

    I don't have that problem at all. IPS monitor.

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Quote Originally Posted by Continu0 View Post
    buzzsaw, i followed your advices but still issue no. 2 remains for me. aircraft really "pop away" at a certain distance. i can easily replicate this issue with the dogfight-even quickmission.

    it seems that between the initial dot beeing loaded and the full model beeing loaded there is an "empty zone" in which you don't see anything.

    i once heard that there is a line in the config.ini that keeps the initial dot beeing loaded at all distances. do you know about it? it might be a solution...

    anyway, thank you very much for your efforts!
    In your config.ini file change and save MeshShowLod=0 to MeshShowLod=1 using a text editor like Notepad. This file is located in your C:/Your Documents/1C Softclub folder.

    Note: you may notice a significant hit on frame rates since this places a heavier load on your microprocessor.


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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Gentlemen,
    Thank you so much for your promt responses.
    I can confirm that the problem with diappearing A/C semes to have been eliminated by configuring "MeshShowLod=1" in the conf.ini file, but I had to drop down from High to Medium settings to retain a reasonable game FPS.

    I have a really old computerwith an Intel Core Quad2 Duo 2,8 GHz, 8 GGB of DDR 2-800 (!! - I know, it's really old...)
    The HD's are old Western Digitals spinning at 7200 rpm's
    I have also two GTX 580 cards in SLI, which probably is an overkill for that old rig, but I've clocked the front side bus to as much as my old RAM in theory can support, 800/2 = 400 MHz, which renders the old box reasonably stable.
    I use Afterburner to run the fans faster and manage to keep the upper card at around 70 deg C when playing, hot, but bearable
    With this old rig I can still play RoF maxed out, DCS P51 in Medium and CoD in High (following an advise from the 1C forums).
    I don't know about FPS, I never masure, all I seek is a nice fluent game and I sacrifice eye candy to get it...
    (In the old days we used to say that anything more than 25 - 30 is a waste of resources, cause your eyes can't really detect it anyway, older CRT TV's did 24 FPS... , but I guess I am happe with anything more than .. say 30 FPS)

    Now, In DCS and RoF I don't ever run out of VideoRAM, 'cause both cards are being utilised, say ona average around 60 - 80% in DCS and around 30 - 50 % in RoF.
    BUT... CoD only utilises the one card, and the upper one at that, i.e. the hotter of the two since hot air raises...
    Also I am running out of VRam ocationally in CoD , which causes stutters, and you can imagine how it is for the Video cards to swap anything with my old vintage fun-box... You could almost brew-up in the time it takes for CoD to sort itself out some times...
    If only I could utilise the 1,5 VRAM sitting there redundant in my second GTX 580...
    I don't expect much improvement, don't get me wrong, but I am happe with the game at medium settings even, or perhaps high, all I want is to avoid running out of VRAM so I avoid the worst studders...
    Does anybody have some simple low-tech kind of guide as to how I could perhaps force the second card to participate anyway.
    I've tried the Force Alternate Screen rendering 1 and 2, that semed to make matters worse for me...

    Best regards,

    BSS_Tintin

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Quote Originally Posted by BSS_Tintin View Post
    Gentlemen,
    Thank you so much for your promt responses.
    .
    .
    I have a really old computerwith an Intel Core Quad2 Duo 2,8 GHz, 8 GGB of DDR 2-800 (!! - I know, it's really old...)
    Tintin, this part is a bit confusing but I supose you have dual core processor.That is probably the reason for your stutters.That CPU on that speed can't fill those 2 cards with data.
    Even if it is a quad it's to slow.You'll need at least 3.5 GHz for comfortable gameplay.
    Try this, but from what I saw SLI don't work very well in CloD.

    http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=37316

    But anyway one gtx580 is fast enough to run this sim at 1080p resolution.I'm running this sim on gtx560 Ti but with fast quad CPU.
    Put trees, houses on low and lower building details to mid.
    But anyway if you like this sim think about upgrade because rendering is set to work on separate core which you probably don't have.

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    With all respect Buzzaw this doesnt fix the problem. The issue is in the game code not in the setup of the videosettings.

    Your suggestion, MIGHT minimize the problem for SOME players but it doesnt fix the orginal issue.

    One shouldnt have to lower the resolution in a game to make essential things visible. The game becomes blurry and doesnt look good with a lower resolution. For some this might make you able to see dots far awat but it doesnt make it easier att the 1500-2000yard distance. Its simply a game code thing.
    I have done all the things in the thread you linked to but planes still disappear at this distance.

    So at this point, one either plays the game a native resolution and it will look good but contacts disappear at the transition between two LODs at a certain distance, OR one lowers the resolution, the game looks awful but SOME might see contacts easier at a certains distance.

    Dont get me wrong. We appreciate what you do in TF Buzzaw but this bug takes more than lowering the resolution to fix.

    Cheers

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Thank you so much for the advice Vranac, and for the feedback Kling.

    Vranac, you've just confirmed what I kind of knew, I guess, except the part with the utilisation of a seperat core for rendering... don't know much about such things at all. My old rig has an Intel prosessor with 4 cores, running at 2,85 GHz or something close to that.
    What's good to know is that I can give my ranting about SLI a rest, I've got other things to tend to first - such as building a new fun-box

    Kling, I respectfully put forward a personal view that these tips and tricks are probably only intended as "work-arounds" i.e. making the best out of what we've got.
    If someone called them fixes it's probably simply a "slip of the tounge" caused by thinking; this work-around "fixed" my problem, hence it's a "fix"
    The shortcoming of the current game code is by no means to be regarded as completely repaired or upgraded to really mature game quality.

    I guess that means that some will benefit more than others, depending on their HW and SW etc. and perhaps a wee bit of divine fortunes to
    I do, however, understand your frustration only too well: it's hard to employ decent tactics agains someone you can't see...
    With some luck perhaps the TF guys, or someone else, will find a work-around that will siut your rig as well in the near future.
    I guess I was lucky, 'cause I play the game version TF3.01, with Medium settings except Original textures and a reasonable current driver for my GTX 580.
    All I've done outside the Video opetions in game is: change the MeshShowLOD setting from '0' to '1' in the conf.ini file.
    I haven't had A/C disappearing on me since then, except when i look the other way of course

    In short: to Oleg:
    THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR VISIONS, FOR WANTING TO DRIVE PROGRESS BEYOND THE HORIZON! (whish you'd come back ..... )
    To the developers and programmers at 1C or Ubisoft or wherever...:
    Thank you for realising so much of Olegs visions and probably Luthiers and other peoples contributions and ideas as well!!
    To Team Fusion: well I've already said thank you to you good people, havent I

    Sincere Regards

    Tin'

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Salute Kling

    With all due respect:

    I do not think you realize how complex and demanding your idea of a 'solution' (which you have detailed in other threads) to this issue is.

    What you are insisting on would require a complete re-write of the core code, which affects a huge number of elements of the game. It would require months and months of work even for someone who had access to an un-encrypted code. Which we do not have.

    There are 7 levels of LOD in the game as it stands, and personally I believe that is sufficient to allow good visual display. The main issue is that the way the LOD's are being displayed is not optimized. And at some point we will try to get in and change this. But right now there are other issues in the game which we consider far more important to address.

    Right now, someone who has a good system and uses settings as recommended will have a pretty decent ability to keep aircraft in sight. Yes, it is not perfect.

    This game has tremendous potential, but it is also a tremendous MESS.

    Everything we do requires a huge amount of time and effort, by people who are being paid ZERO for their time.

    So before you start to make demands about what we should or should not do, you might consider these facts.

    If you are not prepared to accept our decisions and rate of progress, then I would suggest you assemble your own team of coders, graphics artists and Flight modellers to create your own mod.

    Thanks for your patience



    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Kling View Post
    With all respect Buzzaw this doesnt fix the problem. The issue is in the game code not in the setup of the videosettings.

    Your suggestion, MIGHT minimize the problem for SOME players but it doesnt fix the orginal issue.

    One shouldnt have to lower the resolution in a game to make essential things visible. The game becomes blurry and doesnt look good with a lower resolution. For some this might make you able to see dots far awat but it doesnt make it easier att the 1500-2000yard distance. Its simply a game code thing.
    I have done all the things in the thread you linked to but planes still disappear at this distance.

    So at this point, one either plays the game a native resolution and it will look good but contacts disappear at the transition between two LODs at a certain distance, OR one lowers the resolution, the game looks awful but SOME might see contacts easier at a certains distance.

    Dont get me wrong. We appreciate what you do in TF Buzzaw but this bug takes more than lowering the resolution to fix.

    Cheers
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; May-05-2013 at 16:43.

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    So before you start to make demands about what we should or should not do, you might consider these facts.

    If you are not prepared to accept our decisions and rate of progress, then I would suggest you assemble your own team of coders, graphics artists and Flight modellers to create your own
    Im sad you always have to go down this semi aggressive road. Sounds a bit like old 1c although I know that both you and I share the same passion for CLOD.

    Anyway, I do understand, we all do, that its extremely difficult and maybe even impossible to fix and personally I think this is THE MOST needed fix in the game after the FMs. After all, if you cant see your enemy every other bugfix might be made in vain.

    Also I understand that other bugs are easier to fix and therefor might get priority but to indicate that the LOD bug is less important is wrong IMHO.

    Personally the showmeshlod=1 makes no difference to me nor some friends of mine except some loss of FPS although some might see some improvement in LODs.

    Recommending people to lower their resolution from native resolution is the wrong way to go i think since it makes the graphics of the game look worse than some old TV games from the 90s and that way we might lose players rather than create an intrest in this sim.
    I think its more fair to tell new people straight up that there is an issue with the LODS in the game and its on the "to do list" (if it is???) rather than indicating that its some graphic setting with the new players video card and if he does these changes it will be all good.

    Best regards
    Kling

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    No Kling, if you were on the 1c forums you could see lot of real pilots talking about visibility of the contacts.Few of them was sport pilots
    and some of them was airline pilots with radars on their planes and all of them said that even white small or big plane is very hard to spot
    even if you know where they are ( from radar or radio comms).

    This one is from BoS team testing and they hardly find eachother and they were on comms together.This plane have orange skin
    and I'm petty shure it would be very hard to spot without comms.


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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    There are 7 levels of LOD in the game as it stands, and personally I believe that is sufficient to allow good visual display. The main issue is that the way the LOD's are being displayed is not optimized. And at some point we will try to get in and change this. But right now there are other issues in the game which we consider far more important to address.
    My guess is that 7 LOD is probably too many, not too few.

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Quote Originally Posted by vranac View Post
    No Kling, if you were on the 1c forums you could see lot of real pilots talking about visibility of the contacts.Few of them was sport pilots
    and some of them was airline pilots with radars on their planes and all of them said that even white small or big plane is very hard to spot
    even if you know where they are ( from radar or radio comms).

    This one is from BoS team testing and they hardly find eachother and they were on comms together.This plane have orange skin
    and I'm petty shure it would be very hard to spot without comms.

    Vranac I work as an airline pilot i know what im talking about and the guy on the 1cforum explaining visibility compared to radar distance was me.

    In the real world we do not lose a contact at a certain distance just to have it reappear a few secs later but alot closer.
    Thats what we are talking about here. In Clod a plane disappears at a certain distance when it is between two LODs.

    Its a bug in the game code.
    Rise of flight does this perfectly and Clod does not. Its that simple.
    Obviously the hope goes to the guys with the "know how" in TF.

    Btw the plane on the photo would be no problem to see as its moving relative to the ground. I would even say it would be difficult to miss if you look in that direction.

    Regards
    Last edited by Kling; May-05-2013 at 20:11.

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Kling View Post
    I work as an airline pilot i know what im talking about. In the real world we do not lose a contact at a certain distance just to have it reappear a few secs later but alot closer.

    Its a bug in the game code.
    Rise of flight does this perfectly and Clod does not. Its that simple.
    Obviously the hope goes to the guys with the "know how" in TF.
    Hi Kling,
    This is certainly an issue that also appeared way back in the 1946 days. It is not an acceptable situation considering today's computing technology and what is expected of CLOD in this day and age.

    Having said that, it is difficult to tell if any changes can be accomplished to resolve it. It is still an unknown factor that will take some time to get into. Currently, TF are very occupied with changes that can be made to enable a better weapons/damage model and that has been the next priority for some time.

    In the meantime, the only way that is currently known to help alleviate the disappearing contact is to enable the MeshShowLod=1 which does seem to help in most cases. In addition, but not necessarily associated, is the ability of seeing contacts at distance wherein lowering the resolution does help. This too goes back to the 1946 days.

    TF I'm sure, will keep plugging away down the list of known bugs and other undesireable but less pressing (subjective) issues.

    We are all in the same boat on this one and only time will tell if it can be resolved as best as possible and to everyones satisfaction. Knowing the code would sure help but sadly, that is not available to TF.

    Regards,
    Catseye

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    All the work we are doing is based on REALISTIC priorities.

    Ie.

    1) How much effort?

    for

    2) A given result.

    We have already improved the visibility of aircraft considerably with the reflections from glass and painted surfaces. That took 2 or 3 members of the team close to 3 months of working together, (thanks especially to Mattias ) not to mention the testers.

    And that was the easiest route to improving visibility.

    How much time do you think it would take us to re-write all the LOD codes? Any idea? I don't.

    If you have code decrypting and writing skills, we'd be happy to have you take over this task though.

    Otherwise, if you have nothing to offer the team, then we've heard your complaint, (one which by the way was a concern with myself and other TF members long before the mod was released and you even had a chance to fly it) and maybe you'll let the matter rest.

    Thanks for your patience.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Kling View Post
    Im sad you always have to go down this semi aggressive road. Sounds a bit like old 1c although I know that both you and I share the same passion for CLOD.

    Anyway, I do understand, we all do, that its extremely difficult and maybe even impossible to fix and personally I think this is THE MOST needed fix in the game after the FMs. After all, if you cant see your enemy every other bugfix might be made in vain.

    Also I understand that other bugs are easier to fix and therefor might get priority but to indicate that the LOD bug is less important is wrong IMHO.

    Personally the showmeshlod=1 makes no difference to me nor some friends of mine except some loss of FPS although some might see some improvement in LODs.

    Recommending people to lower their resolution from native resolution is the wrong way to go i think since it makes the graphics of the game look worse than some old TV games from the 90s and that way we might lose players rather than create an intrest in this sim.
    I think its more fair to tell new people straight up that there is an issue with the LODS in the game and its on the "to do list" (if it is???) rather than indicating that its some graphic setting with the new players video card and if he does these changes it will be all good.

    Best regards
    Kling
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; May-05-2013 at 20:46.

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    Re: A/C disappearing at about 1500 - 2000 yards, then reappearing muuuch closer...@ s

    Viewpoints have been expressed. Time to move on to other issues.
    Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; May-05-2013 at 21:16.


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