How Can We Get More People to Play Clod?

[ATAG_Lewis]

The original thread on this subject got derailed and then closed after I felt there was some real progression towards attracting more players to this sim, hence this re-thread

Please don't use this thread for anything other than topic discussion..

So, Please copy and paste your posts from the original thread here and hopefully we can start again with some healthy objective discussion.

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Its a Simple question....But I haven't seen anyone ask it yet

If you are reading this then you are probably one of the folks who plays COD on a regular basis and already know just how good it is...Through ATAGS we now have a dedicated crew called Team Fusion who are taking this abandoned sim and doing something constructive with it (working wonders actually) because its a quality WWII sim with a massive potential...but the fact is that still not many people play it....If you go on to Hyperlobby and look at the original IL-2 you will still see 100+ playing the owld sim on any given night and thats dying sim....but thats not the case with COD....If it were a bad game/sim then I could understand it and there be no need for a post...but we all know thats not the case

I thought I might start a discussion at least about this....I mean if we can get more folks flying COD then we WILL create longevity with the sim we love...That was proved with the original and even though it was a niche market the numbers of faithfull flyers didn't dwindle for many years....Only a couple of years ago did the numbers drop quickly and then over a few months....to the faithfull that are still enjoying it..and who still outnumber COD players

I flew the original IL-2 for many years on servers in Hyperlobby at first like 'Flying Circus', 'Big Top' and later 'Skies of Fire' but not many of those thousands of players (and there were thousands) have migrated to this follow on sim...and that stumps me...If we have that amount of players flying COD then this sim will be at the top of the online WWII sims in terms of numbers for many years to come just as the original was...We would have guaranteed longevity

So what can we do to attract more folks?

How can we get those faithfull flyers to fly COD?

Am I right in assuming we want more flyers?....That has to be a given, surely?

I just thought I would throw this out there to you clever WWII aircraft enthusiasts who might enlighten me as to how or why...and if and but

Thank ~S~

Lew

[ATAG_Lewis]

I see a few of the community here have posted reviews on the Amazon website.....I just did too...But I just realised something....I initially posted on the UK Amazon site as thats the one that comes up as default for me....That is ONLY for UK customers so if you are going to take the time to write a review then it makes more sense to go the extra yard and copy and paste it and post it on the international site too which will have a LOT more traffic...It will take you 5 minutes to do this

At present there are 27 reviews on the UK site and 128 on the international site....So I'd make a guess that the international site gets around 5 times the traffic the UK site does......Also if you have put a 4 star then up it to 5 to try to dilute those 1 star negative reviews...

Hmmm.....I wonder if Amazon will smell a rat if they get 100 reviews all with 5 star and the same date?....lol

You know, I even thought of contacting those folks who put a 1 star through their Amazon account and asking them to try the sim again and update their review...but I cant seem to be able to send them a message without it being seen....hehe.....SUBTERFUGE!!!

Amazon International:

http://www.amazon.com/IL-2-Sturmovik...+il2+sturmovik

Amazon UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sturmovik-Cl...pr_product_top

Do we have a list of sites that CLOD is sold on that have a customer review option?

[ATAG_Lewis]

I really don't believe there is any chance of us overselling this product..at the present time there are 15 people playing it online.....in the world!

First the influence we are going to have, if we pull out all the stops, over the present population is not going to be massive...It will be small scale...I don't think we are going to overhaul the majority opinion that CLOD is to be seen in a negative light...But I don't think we can do any harm if we start to tip the balance in our favour...more than it is...

I want to see more people in ATAGS servers.....I want it to be full when I come to play....I want to have to wait and keep hitting that 'Enter server' key repeatedly in frustration because the server is packed and I can't get in....For me thats what it deserves.....We have the quality brains behind the transformation of this sim in the TF who are doing a blinding job....however, for any product it does not matter how good your team is if you can't sell your product then you have lost...

All I'm saying is lets try to tip the scales back to the positive, and encourage new blood by hitting the first point of contact which is when someone says...'Hey I'd like to play a WWII flight sim, now lets see the reviews of whats on the market' ...that includes reviews and video sites

So with the clever fellas we have here and this community surely there is something we can do toward getting those servers full.....constantly

What say you?

[startrekmike]

Thanks for trying to keep this discussion moving, that last thread was a sad show indeed at the end.

Anyway, here is my major contribution from the last forum that I will copy/pasta here.


I just had a thought while on the DCS subreddit, they have something called "Tuesday night noob" where they essentially set up a large scale training area where there are a large groups of targets at varying degree's of difficulty (ranging from simple trucks to concealed SAM systems), this gives new players not only a safe place to practice but also gives them direct access to more skilled players who spend time their to teach.

Rise of flight also has this in the form of the New wings server, again, it is a area where one who just started can go and get the info they need to do the basics in a relatively safe atmosphere.

Perhaps this would be something that ATAG could look into, perhaps this server does not need to always be up like New wings, perhaps it could just be a specific day of the week (frequent enough so that new players don't have to wait long to use it) and experienced players (I would even be willing to help with what I have learned myself) could hop in and help with everything ranging from CEM to basic combat.

Another thing that might help is actually starting a subreddit that is directly CloD related (as opposed to IL-2 in general), it might even be a good idea to use that subreddit as a way to organize players for online play without having them join a squadron (something that might intimidate new players), as a extension of that, it would be a good way to allow squadrons to non-aggressively recruit new members.

Reddit is a pretty popular place and a lot of flight simmers hang out there, I would be willing to start the subreddit but I am going to need help to get it going.


Lastly, I still think that keeping a eye on the War thunder forums is a good way to grab players, we would be doing them a favor anyway (money wise).


Quick update, I created the subreddit http://www.reddit.com/r/IL2CliffsofDover

[Roblex]

I would agree that a nice instructional mission showing how to take off and do a circuit using CEM would be useful. What we would have to avoid though is making them too complicated! I cringe when I see a tutorial showing people how to adjust twenty different switches and levers before you even start the engine. That sort of thing just convinces newbies that the game is overcomplicated and that they will never learn enough to even get off the ground so why bother trying?

Show them how to turn on the fuel, start the engine, wait for optimum temperature, open the rad then take-off and raise the undercarriage. Then show them how to reduce the pitch a bit, maybe prompt them to try different pitch settings so they understand what it is doing, perhaps talk about rad settings, then bring them back to the field and talk them through the landing and flaps, pitch etc. then stop the engine using fuel switch.

This gives them a basic understanding and more importantly shows them that they can take off and do a circuit without blowing up. Once they know they can fly a circuit then they can look elsewhere for the fine details. There is no need to even mention mixture, magnetos, carb heating etc in this first lesson. I would say the majority of the online tutorials we have are overcomplicated and do more harm than good. I looked at this months issue of 'PC Pilot' and the article on how to fly the Blenheim was horrifying in it complexity! Nobody will come to CLOD after reading that!

[startrekmike]

I would agree that a nice instructional mission showing how to take off and do a circuit using CEM would be useful. What we would have to avoid though is making them too complicated! I cringe when I see a tutorial showing people how to adjust twenty different switches and levers before you even start the engine. That sort of thing just convinces newbies that the game is overcomplicated and that they will never learn enough to even get off the ground so why bother trying?

Show them how to turn on the fuel, start the engine, wait for optimum temperature, open the rad then take-off and raise the undercarriage. Then show them how to reduce the pitch a bit, maybe prompt them to try different pitch settings so they understand what it is doing, perhaps talk about rad settings, then bring them back to the field and talk them through the landing and flaps, pitch etc. then stop the engine using fuel switch.

This gives them a basic understanding and more importantly shows them that they can take off and do a circuit without blowing up. Once they know they can fly a circuit then they can look elsewhere for the fine details. There is no need to even mention mixture, magnetos, carb heating etc in this first lesson. I would say the majority of the online tutorials we have are overcomplicated and do more harm than good. I looked at this months issue of 'PC Pilot' and the article on how to fly the Blenheim was horrifying in it complexity! Nobody will come to CLOD after reading that!

While I do agree that some of the theory involved in CEM is difficult, I don't think (to the extent that it is modeled in CloD) that it is terribly complicated to teach the basics, I mean, we are not talking about doing a full start-up in the A-10C or the Ka-50 after all.

That said, I think I am thinking of less of a straight up organized and specific tutorial and more of a general learning environment where newbies can come on to the server and have a low pressure (and low risk) place to learn everything they want to learn, this could be done with a few helpful veteran pilots hanging around who are willing to teach whatever comes up.

I mean, organizing it like you would organize squadron training is a bad idea, it places too much pressure on the new players who are not even sure they want that kind of commitment, setting up a weekly server that is open all day (with different veterans coming in and out as desired) would provide a low pressure atmosphere where new players won't feel like they are going to get tested on what they have learned or anything like that.

We just want to give them that first push and not scare them away with too many formalities or stuff like that.

I agree that it should just be the basics, enough to give them context for their own study.

[1lokos]

There is no need to even mention mixture, magnetos, carb heating etc in this first lesson. I would say the majority of the online tutorials we have are overcomplicated and do more harm than good. I looked at this months issue of 'PC Pilot' and the article on how to fly the Blenheim was horrifying in it complexity! Nobody will come to CLOD after reading that!

A proper Blenheim tutorial here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=121341795

Sokol1

[Continu0]

recon, i might actually find the time to do such missions during summer. I'll come back to you, ok?

[dburne]

I think one of the things that would definitely help newcomers to IL2 Cliffs of Dover, and retaining them, would be getting them first and foremost over here to the ATAG forum, where they can find all the information they need to firstly get up to speed easily with the mods, and learn some of the nuances of the sim.
Now what follows is just my opinion at still being somewhat relatively new to TF modded Cliffs and the ATAG forums.

There currently is quite a wealth of information here to help newcomers out. Lewis' New Beginners thread is awesome, I found it very beneficial when I first learned of ATAG and TF, getting my sim modded up to the current mod, and getting the way overwhelming controller options configured. The essential command list proved to be extremely beneficial to myself getting my Warthog set up without spending hours and hours trying to configure all of those controller options, many of which undoubtedly would never be used.

Then, I needed to learn about managing the windows in Cliffs, and finally found a tutorial here that explained it very simply, and I was finally able to manage to set the windows I wanted to display the information I needed.

Then of course there was CEM to learn, and after searching through and asking questions, found many of the answers here on this great forum to help me.

Then, ammo loadouts - wow, you mean I can set and adjust my ammo loadouts per belt? Way cool, so I went through a tutorial I found here on that, spent literally hours setting custom ammo loadouts for the planes I was currently flying, namely the variations of the Spit and Hurri, then finally to flying and fighting - not really seeing any difference, only to find out later from asking about it - well, that does not work in single player. I only fly single player...

Then the information to help me understand proper take off procedures, why my wingmen were not following me, etc etc.

I guess the point I am making, is I have learned a wealth of information here on these forums, from different sections of the forums, to help me become somewhat proficient and know what I am doing with Cliffs, as well as to know some of the limitations and nuances... but, I spent quite a bit of time searching the forums, asking questions, getting pointed to the right section, etc... but I am a pretty patient fellow, but could certainly see where some others might not have as much patience and just give up.

You guys have a tremendous amount of valuable information at this site, regarding the Cliffs sim along with the TF mods. If it could somehow be consolidated into say one area, for newcomers much like the thread Lewis has, where all that information is available at one's fingertips - say with links to learning cem, links to learning windows management, links to known shortfalls, etc. , it might prove to help new folks just finding out about the great work TF has done and the great support ATAG is providing...

I am in no way criticizing what is here, because what is here is extremely valuable and beneficial, just that it takes a bit of searching to find all of the relevant info. Heck I have seen certain sticky threads I remember that I got back and try to find for a refresher, and at times have to search through each section until I find it.

I absolutely love this sim now, and what you guys have done for it, and look forward to many, many more hours/days/weeks/months and hopefully years ahead of great stuff from you fine folks " Keeping the Dream Alive"...

Imho, there is currently no better WWII combat flight sim, and don't see that changing anytime soon, and I hope many more find it to be the treasure that it is, the diamond in the rough, that I have.

[Bait]

I tried to be kind and honest.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.ph...5#entry2769333

I also invited everyone in my old squadron here, and offered to pay for one particular persons copy of CLoD.

Best I can do at this point.


Airmailed from Switzerland.

[implicit A]

Well done Bait !

[LuseKofte]

It will come people from BOS also if and when dedicated servers starting up. In my point of view CLOd and BOS is not enough alone. They are pretty narrow in term of time and maps. So combined flying between those two will be sort of good.
The numbers will not increase as long as it is only one active CLOD server around. We need servers that is active in all timezones and give people choices.
If this happens I am pretty sure CLOD will after all this time be big

[ATAG_Lewis]

Just a thought....We are getting a lot of new players recently coming from WarThunder....I have checked a couple of WT vids recently and was impressed with the Full Real mode they have over there..Its not as graphically good as CLOD and the feel seems a little bit arcade style but I was still impressed with it all the same...



So...I have now started advertising CLOD directly onto these videos with a 'Have you tried Clod?...Its real cheap and realistic..'..and then I have added a link to one of my vids...Why I didn't think of this before, I don't know...

We'll see what reaction it gets..

[hnbdgr]

Just a thought....We are getting a lot of new players recently coming from WarThunder....I have checked a couple of WT vids recently and was impressed with the Full Real mode they have over there..Its not as graphically good as CLOD and the feel seems a little bit arcade style but I was still impressed with it all the same...



So...I have now started advertising CLOD directly onto these videos with a 'Have you tried Clod?...Its real cheap and realistic..'..and then I have added a link to one of my vids...Why I didn't think of this before, I don't know...

We'll see what reaction it gets..

I never tried War Thunder but their scenery looks imho better..... Clod has a more mature feel when it comes to graphics for sure, but the towns and distant rendering suffer in comparison to WT. Perhaps WT graphics are a tiiiiiny bit more cartoonish but landscapes look real good.

[Osprey]

Just a thought....We are getting a lot of new players recently coming from WarThunder....I have checked a couple of WT vids recently and was impressed with the Full Real mode they have over there..Its not as graphically good as CLOD and the feel seems a little bit arcade style but I was still impressed with it all the same...



So...I have now started advertising CLOD directly onto these videos with a 'Have you tried Clod?...Its real cheap and realistic..'..and then I have added a link to one of my vids...Why I didn't think of this before, I don't know...

We'll see what reaction it gets..

Why didn't you add the "Beginning of the End" movie? It's one of the reasons we made it is to show off COD and the BOB. No disrespect intended but a general track directly turned into an .avi and uploaded isn't going to be the best advert. I could be wrong, your movies could be the best Lewis I don't really know, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at.

As for the 'beginner server', I suggested this a long long time ago and I probably wasn't the first either. Once I get a few missions sorted ACG will set one up probably - 334th_Dedicated used to be one of the most popular servers in Hyperlobby back in the day.

What may help Lew is if you edit your beginners guide to state that there are multiple servers to choose from rather than just sending everyone into one place, you know, put up that big list of servers and the type of stuff they offer. I think many people come over thinking that they'll get a BOB experience in COD, escorting masses of bombers etc, not sure that's what they end up experiencing. It's in all of our interests to hang on to people who try COD out.

[LuseKofte]

Well a easy servers success depending on people being there. It is the old issue about gravity.
So every once in a while we should be in it to atract other players


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Osprey]

You are right there Reddog, I added some message or other, we can edit that. Once we have this mission refined I'll make copies and edit aircraft types to suit. I'm thinking of putting in some tank/vehicle objectives too, then perhaps we could even target some of the WoT players? Just a thought.

Open pit is actually very good fun and you'll be firing from completely different deflection positions.

BTW, it's likely to go down each Wednesday as it gets used for our DCS night, but if people are using it Nitrous will take down our main server for that instead.

[ATAG_Lewis]

Good work Fellas...~S~

[dburne]

Dumb question from a Single Player guy, what exactly does open pit mean?

[ATAG_Dave]

I don't know what Open Pit means either but im guessing it means you fly your plane from an external perspective rather than sat in your cockpit? If so the WT terminology (assuming that's the target audience here) for that is 'Third Person View' if that's any help.

[Marmus]

You are right there Reddog, I added some message or other, we can edit that. Once we have this mission refined I'll make copies and edit aircraft types to suit. I'm thinking of putting in some tank/vehicle objectives too, then perhaps we could even target some of the WoT players? Just a thought.

Open pit is actually very good fun and you'll be firing from completely different deflection positions.

BTW, it's likely to go down each Wednesday as it gets used for our DCS night, but if people are using it Nitrous will take down our main server for that instead.

I think this server idea is a great idea!

[Mysticpuma]

Open Pit means you can switch the cockpit surroundings off. It's also known as Wonder Woman view as she had a glass plane she could see through. Maybe the description should be 'Cockpit off (Optional)'. ?

Difficult to make it short and brief, but for players who don't know the terminology it may help?

Cheers, MP

[Osprey]

Indeed MP, it means cockpit off, my description is "Open Cockpit", maybe again that needs changing.

Burnette, just go in and try it, grab a bunch of you for either side and when you spawn in hit ctrl+F1. Once you are fighting you'll love it, it's great fun, quite different from what you've been used to. It may appear new to a lot of people but trust me, this is all old skool.

Also, is Cliffs on offer at the moment? If this is the case then ACG will buy licences for 10 pilots who haven't flown COD yet, we're willing to pay for an entire squadron (joystick based) to migrate over from WT, or Open Pit 1946. Can somebody help us identify such a group? Or 10 individuals who are likely to give it a proper go.

Any volunteer to help us with this offer? If it works we'll extend it.


PS,
"Wonder Woman" is the kind of derogatory term I was referring to which comes from some of the closed pit crowd, with any luck it'll make a reappearance on the forums

[ATAG_Dave]

Open Pit means you can switch the cockpit surroundings off. It's also known as Wonder Woman view as she had a glass plane she could see through. Maybe the description should be 'Cockpit off (Optional)'. ?

Difficult to make it short and brief, but for players who don't know the terminology it may help?

Cheers, MP

Ah OK in that case the WT terminology for this is 'Virtual Cockpit'

[ChiefRedCloud]

We at New Wings Virtual Flight Training put our idea into effect nearly three years ago as our BASIC TRAINING server. Why the name? Because it is Basic Training. It's the beginning or how to get the planes off the ground. We went on to create an intermediate server and a near full real/historical server. We established our forums to take in any and all training, tips, and ideas for new pilots from within the Rise of Flight community. Such resources as Requiem's fine training videos.

And though we provide the servers, any training is via our Volunteer Cadre and so we are not a full fledged Training facility as we would have liked. The idea of a Basic Training server for beginner pilots to Cliffs of Dover was also on our wish list. However resources and manpower did not allow this to take place.

I earnestly believe with groups like ATAG and ACG with the support of the Cliffs of Dover community we can see a server for Clod beginner pilots to come to light.

Chief

[9./JG52 Mindle]

In the time you have taken to write all this you could have learned to fly full real. Not being facetious, it really isn't that hard to do and then you will have the best combat flight sim experience out there.

[silen one]

Bucksnort. v funny

Philstyle . Thanks for your post. And respect to you for changing your wording Arcade for most folks on the other side of the fence reads as , theres the " real " pilots and the space invaders pilots. You could see how that would rub guys who want complex flight models but no CEM the wrong way If I wanted to play an arcade game Id buy a playstation So Ill give CEM a shot.

Mindle . Your quite right. Enough talk time to get flying

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Philstyle . Thanks for your post. And respect to you for changing your wording Arcade for most folks on the other side of the fence reads as , theres the " real " pilots and the space invaders pilots. You could see how that would rub guys who want complex flight models but no CEM the wrong way If I wanted to play an arcade game Id buy a playstation

Understood mate. I was begin lazy by resorting to the use of "arcade", I'll admit.

If there is real demand for a non-CEM multiplayer environment in Cliffs, someone will provide it. It might just be a matter of asking around more widely? (I genuinely do not know if there are other out there who might be thinking along similar lines as yourself)

[b0czek]

but but... CEM is the reason I - after Otyg said about 'this different game' somewhere in WT forums - quit WarThunders' SB/FRB for CloD+TF.

I think we should not atract people with CEM-off, becaue in my opinion we start to compete with WarThunder. I doubt it is the way. We will not bring RB guys, because of mouse steering. Similar with SB - because of graphics and a number of airplanes models. Even there SB mode is not crowded place - there is usually much more pilots here on ATAG than in SB. CloD on ATAG offers a niche and this is clue. It gives us a small window to look at history...

.. and it gives bomber cocpits, which WarThunder probably never will (this is the news we can spread on WT forums).

Speaking for myself - first few sorties I died because of overreving engine, forgetting about opening rads after warm up, etc. etc... And I've got hooked, this is it - plane behaves like plane. My inputs get logicall response.

And this is also a barrier: joystick and required knowledge (which does not seem to be much for person interested in, but for other it is). I've got 4 mates, I've bring them to RB in WT from AB. We still fly together from time to time. They like it, but I did not get them to SB or CloD until now. Maybe I will bring them as crewmembers one they.

So - all depends on what people are looking for...

[Bezar]

^

People play what they like to play. In those line in mind, sim game's for simers, so for hard core gamers. Now if you look on average age of this community 60% or more are older players 30+.

You can't lure(youngsters) from wt mouse-drivers and click per kill, they play what they want to, so bee it. No noo nooo, CloD shouldn't have nicknames over aircraft bull...

Guys interested in sims will find CloD, just keep the good work as it is.

I started my aircombat in WT year ago, then 8 months later, mate from squad invited me to il-2 series, my whole world broke down. That propaganda... wt isn't sim, is clear to me now, they just call it that n' historical accurate my ass. I really thought that wt is sim...

Once a time is nice to place youtube link to clodTF here or there, maybe there's some one like me, who don't know what Sturmovik is all about.