DCS P51 and SAITEK rudder pedals

[Catseye]

Hi All,
I have DCS P-51 and it seems to be super sensitive on the rudder pedals - even modifying the settings to a flatter curve it is hard to keep the beast from running off the runway. (I do lock the tailwheel.)

What I'm interested in, is a third party program to adjust the sensitivity of my Saitek rudder pedals.

Can anyone throw an app name my way?

Thanks,
Catseye

[1lokos]

You can try with DXtweak2.

Sokol1

[Catseye]

You can try with DXtweak2.

Sokol1

Thanks, will give it a try.

[Foul Ole Ron]

What settings do you use for take-off? The manual says 3000rpm and 61 MP which is a bit of an overkill really. There might have been some reason for it in real life but in the sim I usually use 2700 / 3000, advance first to 30 and then once I'm happy with direction advance to 46 and take off. Find it a good bit easier to control the torque at those levels.

[airdoc]

Hi All,
I have DCS P-51 and it seems to be super sensitive on the rudder pedals - even modifying the settings to a flatter curve it is hard to keep the beast from running off the runway. (I do lock the tailwheel.)

What I'm interested in, is a third party program to adjust the sensitivity of my Saitek rudder pedals.

Can anyone throw an app name my way?

Thanks,
Catseye

Catseye the P51 module in DCS is very different from any other sim in the sensitivity of the control surfaces. I also have the Saitek rudder pedals and in the beginning had a tough time keeping it straight during takeoff. By introducing a curve, it made it easier, but nonetheless nothing similar to IL2 or CLOD. Takeoff and landing are procedures that you always have to be extra careful in DCS P51 no matter how experienced you are in the sim (its part of the realism).
The rudder is more powerful than in CLOD (and far far more powerful than IL2), and should be more carefully handled.
If after introducing a curve on the rudder pedals you still find it hard to keep her lined up during takeoff consider the following things :
1. Check that you have takeoff rudder trim set properly (5 degrees right)
2. The P51 is very sensitive to changes in torque. What manifold pressure do you use for takeoff? You shouldn't go at max throttle (>60 manifold), unless there are specific circumstances (max weight with tanks, very short runway). In reality most pilots used 46 inches for a standard weight takeoff with no flaps. Higher manifold will yield more torque and require more rudder input. A way to a steady takeoff is to hold breaks fully on until 30-35 inches (the plane doesn't move at that setting), release them and gradually add power up to 45 inches immediately after that. If you mess with the throttle very abruptly or increase to max, then the aircraft will respond with jerky pulling to the side. One can still take-off with max throttle but it's more difficult and there is a risk of over-revving (engine will burst a few seconds after takeoff), because of the fine take-off pitch.
3. I found it helpful to use a number of slight, sudden, brief rudder pushes when i see the aircraft getting off track in order to keep it centered. Because the rudder is so powerful, any kind of prolonged or deep push will put the aircraft in a non-recoverable course and flip over -again, it's completely different from any other sim.

It takes quite some practice to get comfortable with takeoffs in the P51. Even after months of playing, I still have to be sure I checked everything right before takeoff. Drop tanks, bombs or sidewind, make it even more challenging. Things such as a forgotten elevator tail-heavy trim set for the previous landing will result in a certain stall and crash during the takeoff. That's the beauty of this sim.

cheers

EDIT : just saw that Foul Ole Ron had already mentioned some of this, sorry for repeating

[Catseye]

Catseye the P51 module in DCS is very different from any other sim in the sensitivity of the control surfaces. I also have the Saitek rudder pedals and in the beginning had a tough time keeping it straight during takeoff. By introducing a curve, it made it easier, but nonetheless nothing similar to IL2 or CLOD. Takeoff and landing are procedures that you always have to be extra careful in DCS P51 no matter how experienced you are in the sim (its part of the realism).
The rudder is more powerful than in CLOD (and far far more powerful than IL2), and should be more carefully handled.
If after introducing a curve on the rudder pedals you still find it hard to keep her lined up during takeoff consider the following things :
1. Check that you have takeoff rudder trim set properly (5 degrees right)
2. The P51 is very sensitive to changes in torque. What manifold pressure do you use for takeoff? You shouldn't go at max throttle (>60 manifold), unless there are specific circumstances (max weight with tanks, very short runway). In reality most pilots used 46 inches for a standard weight takeoff with no flaps. Higher manifold will yield more torque and require more rudder input. A way to a steady takeoff is to hold breaks fully on until 30-35 inches (the plane doesn't move at that setting), release them and gradually add power up to 45 inches immediately after that. If you mess with the throttle very abruptly or increase to max, then the aircraft will respond with jerky pulling to the side. One can still take-off with max throttle but it's more difficult and there is a risk of over-revving (engine will burst a few seconds after takeoff), because of the fine take-off pitch.
3. I found it helpful to use a number of slight, sudden, brief rudder pushes when i see the aircraft getting off track in order to keep it centered. Because the rudder is so powerful, any kind of prolonged or deep push will put the aircraft in a non-recoverable course and flip over -again, it's completely different from any other sim.

It takes quite some practice to get comfortable with takeoffs in the P51. Even after months of playing, I still have to be sure I checked everything right before takeoff. Drop tanks, bombs or sidewind, make it even more challenging. Things such as a forgotten elevator tail-heavy trim set for the previous landing will result in a certain stall and crash during the takeoff. That's the beauty of this sim.

cheers

EDIT : just saw that Foul Ole Ron had already mentioned some of this, sorry for repeating

Thanks for the feedback.
I soon found out that around 40 - 46 boost seemed about right for a standard takeoff rather than full boost.

Interestingly enough, I narrowed it down to how abrupt the rudder engages and also how much with just a touch of the pedals. I don't run any program before the sim as in the Saitek program as I had a couple of blue screens when it was installed.

Running off the runway with just a touch is also an issue after I make a great three-point landing. Just touching the pedals and voila, I look like I'm bent three sheets to the wind as they say after a night at the pub.

So, what I want to find is a program that allows me to adjust the sensitivity of the rudder pedals outside of the sim. I've adjusted them within the sim, but so far haven't found a curve that I can work with.

Thanks for the help all,
Very much appreciated.

Catseye

[TWC_BikerJack]

Catseye,

I have Saitek pedals and have only just started with DCS and the P51. Can the toe brakes on the pedals be assigned? I have looked everywhere and can't see how. My pedals seem to be recognised as another joystick in DCS?

Regards


EDit: It appears that this is a common problem and having now looked at the DCS forum there is a fix -

"All assignments are done in game, not in SST. Delete all entries under your rudder in game.

Assign axis and then, go in "AXIS TUNE" and select both "INVERT" and "SLIDER" options. Worked for me since day one, on all betas. cheers! "

Rudder: JOY_RZ
Left Wheel Brake: JOY_X (invert axis)
Right Wheel Brake: JOY_Y (invert axis)

[Catseye]

Catseye,

I have Saitek pedals and have only just started with DCS and the P51. Can the toe brakes on the pedals be assigned? I have looked everywhere and can't see how. My pedals seem to be recognised as another joystick in DCS?

Regards


EDit: It appears that this is a common problem and having now looked at the DCS forum there is a fix -

"All assignments are done in game, not in SST. Delete all entries under your rudder in game.

Assign axis and then, go in "AXIS TUNE" and select both "INVERT" and "SLIDER" options. Worked for me since day one, on all betas. cheers! "

Rudder: JOY_RZ
Left Wheel Brake: JOY_X (invert axis)
Right Wheel Brake: JOY_Y (invert axis)

Hi Bikerjack,
Yes, here is how I assigned mine (see pic). No problems with my setup.

Cheers,
Catseye
Attachment 4577

[Old_Canuck]

Hi Bikerjack,
Yes, here is how I assigned mine (see pic). No problems with my setup.

Cheers,
Catseye
Attachment 4577

Catseye - found a good video last night that got me off to a great start setting up curves. CH Pro Pedals: Axis Tune - deadzone 25, x axis 100, y axis 30, saturation 30. Give it a try M8. Have different settings for trim sliders, pitch and roll but ground targets stay rock steady even zoomed in until a short burst makes work for the ground crew.

[Catseye]

Catseye - found a good video last night that got me off to a great start setting up curves. CH Pro Pedals: Axis Tune - deadzone 25, x axis 100, y axis 30, saturation 30. Give it a try M8. Have different settings for trim sliders, pitch and roll but ground targets stay rock steady even zoomed in until a short burst makes work for the ground crew.

Hi OC,
Seems to be a good base to start from. I set it up last night and after a few tweaks relative to my stick it works pretty good. It gave me a better understanding of the setup architecture required.

I'm going to translate what I see in the SIM and see what happens when I create the same curves etc. directly in my stick script.

Very nice!

Thanks,
Cats . . .

[Foul Ole Ron]

If you put the rudder y axis to 30 saturation you're only getting 30% of max available rudder. Not sure it's a good idea to limit yourself that much. It'll probably work ok if you're doing some ground-pounding but if you're in air-to-air combat having that extra 70% rudder will probably be required. Also if you get some battle damage to the rudder that missing 70% could be crucial. The only curve that I use a little saturation on is the pitch as pulling very hard on that will always just accelerate stall the aircraft - I found I need a little as the X52 pro I have is a little imprecise and it was too easy to accelerate stall in dive pull outs, etc.

For what it's worth the curves I use after trial and error are below though obviously everybody is different:

Pitch
Deadzone: 10
X: 100
Y: 85
Curve: 25

Roll
Deadzone: 10
X: 100
Y: 100 (you'll never want to reduce your max roll)
Curve: 25

Rudder:
Deadzone: 10
X: 100
Y: 100
Curve: 25

[OverDhill]

Hoping your still around

Just got the P-51 installed and sure enough the Saitek Combat Pro Rudders are way too sensitive. How did you end up setting yours up?

[ElGringo]

Did you uncheck the autorudder in the DCS settings? It' s a lot easier once this option is off.

[Vlerkies]

Hoping your still around

Just got the P-51 installed and sure enough the Saitek Combat Pro Rudders are way too sensitive. How did you end up setting yours up?

You can also go into the controls for the p51, click the drop down box and select axis. (note there will be 2 lots of controls for each aircraft, basically one sim and one game, or real and game, you need to configure the one for the mode you play.)
Highlight the rudder there and click axis tune at the bottom, that will allow you to input an S curve which will reduce the sensitivity to your taste.

A video, explaining the DCS controls and stuff where you can see the curves as well around the 3 minute mark.