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Thread: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

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    Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Bob Doe...D.S.O\ D.F.C & Bar
    If there was a pilot who hid his light under a bushel, it was Bob Doe. Doe ended the Battle of Britain as the third most successful fighter pilot in the Battle, with 14 victories to his credit. His extraordinary modesty and reticent nature inevitably meant that his name is less well known than some of the stars of the Battle.
    Doe struggled to meet the requirements of a pre-war pilot. Initially he lacked confidence. He disliked aerobatics.
    His battle started on August 15th at Middle Wallop where he was flying a Spitfire on 234 Squadron.
    He wrote later that, on his first operational flight, he was filled with dread. But the fear of being a coward overcame that of being killed. He pressed on. On this, his first trip, he managed to score a victory over a Me110 near Swanage.
    On the following days he shot down several German aircraft including a Me109, a Ju88and a Do17. By the end of the month he had destroyed five enemy aircraft.
    On September 4th, his Squadron intercepted a large group of Me109s. In the ensuing melee, Doe shot down no less than 3 of the German fighters. Still his record persisted.
    A few days later he shot down several more enemy aircraft. The continuous fighting had, however, led to severe losses on the Squadron.
    Having started with 15 pilots, there were only three of the original lot left by the middle of the month. Doe went on to join 238 Squadron as a Flight Commander. He managed to score several more victories before being shot down himself and being quite severely wounded. Parachuting from his stricken aircraft, he landed in a sewage plant which must, at least, have broken his fall.
    Having recovered from his wounds, in January 1941, he was on a night flight, but suffered an engine failure. He succeeded in force landing his plane but he smashed his face when his harness broke. Doe had to endure a number of painful operations under the skilful surgeon Sir Harold Gillies. Having had his face rebuilt, he was rested.
    However, subsequently he went out to India and formed a new squadron of the Indian Air Force. He flew as its Commanding Officer in the Burma campaign. For that he received the DSO, to add to his DFC and Bar.
    Doe, the son of a gardener, had left school at the age 14, when he had appeared to be a somewhat sickly boy.
    This extremely modest man ended up an outstanding leader of men and an amazingly brave and successful pilot. To top it all he was, apparently, a most agreeable character. He died in February 2010, at the age of 89.[info from battleofbritainblog.com]





    Bob's Spitfire living up to its Name.
    Click on image then click again and it will re-size to correct 2048 x 2048 dimensions then Right click and select 'Save Image As' into appropriate Skins folder
    Last edited by KeefyBoy; Sep-24-2019 at 19:03.

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Thanks for all your historical skins and interesting notes.

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Yes, thanks for that. The background notes make very interesting reading. Sounds like he was a really good bloke.

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    In an interview Bob Doe told that he use to counter trim his Spit to fly at an angle when he was in formation...this made enemy pilots that bounced him fire deflection shots at the wrong place...once he was aware of them he quickly rectified the trim for combat...

    I loved his manner in the many WW2 documentaries I saw that he interviewed for...he was humble and modest and someone that inspired...

    I made a tribute video the day of his passing....His grandson contacted me to thank me..

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Hello all and thank you for letting me in.

    I've been investigating on Iron Maiden's album cover for "Aces High" song, featuring an Spitfire.

    A0428-IRON-MAIDEN-Aces-High-1865.jpg

    a0428 iron maiden aces high 1866.jpg

    But which Spitfire exactly? Being a song about Battle of Britain, and because the part of the letter appearing in the back cover seems to be a D: checking the Aces in the WWII there was one which surname started with D, and casually he was piloting a MK I Spitfire. He was the Official Bob Doe, one of "The Few". :

    The 234 squad used the AZ code during the Battle, so I think the plane the designer took the inspiration from was this one:

    unnamed.gif

    I was pretty sure it was right, but a year ago it was launched a model kit of that plane, and it looked like this:

    revell-iron-maiden-spitfire-05688-pack.jpg

    So a Spitfire MK II (instead of Does' MK I) and with different pilot/squad letters.

    Can someone please help me determining if the plane in Iron Maiden's album is Bod Doe's Spitfire, or at least if it's a Spitfire I or II?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by hprat; Jul-02-2020 at 12:53.

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by hprat View Post
    Hello all and thank you for letting me in.

    I've been investigating on Iron Maiden's album cover for "Aces High" song, featuring an Spitfire.

    A0428-IRON-MAIDEN-Aces-High-1865.jpg

    a0428 iron maiden aces high 1866.jpg

    But which Spitfire exactly? Being a song about Battle of Britain, and because the part of the letter appearing in the back cover seems to be a D: checking the Aces in the WWII there was one which surname started with D, and casually he was piloting a MK I Spitfire. He was the Official Bob Doe, one of "The Few". :

    The 234 squad used the AZ code during the Battle, so I think the plane the designer took the inspiration from was this one:

    unnamed.gif

    I was pretty sure it was right, but a year ago it was launched a model kit of that plane, and it looked like this:

    revell-iron-maiden-spitfire-05688-pack.jpg

    So a Spitfire MK II (instead of Does' MK I) and with different pilot/squad letters.

    Can someone please help me determining if the plane in Iron Maiden's album is Bod Doe's Spitfire, or at least if it's a Spitfire I or II?

    Thanks!

    I think, without much fear, i can tell you that you are reading far far too much everything my friend. I rather suspect Revel took their MkII and changed the decals to a fictional squadron to avoid dissing anyones memory (not everyone is an iron maiden fan) and said to Bruce "what you think", Bruce says "er...yeah..do i get royalites?" and off it goes.

    Lets face it, with Eddie the Head at the controls and a tail code of 666 Im pretty sure historical accuaracy was not at the top of their list. Off the pics you posted i would also suggest that the original album art may have even used Douglas Bader's spit as inspiration given his name was likely the most synonimous with the RAF in that period to a layperson.

    So i guess its a MkI(ron).
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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    I....) and said to Bruce "what you think", Bruce says "er...yeah..do i get royalites?" and off it goes.
    I wouldn't be so sure he would say that. He's rather partial to his aviation.....


    Sadly I can't add anything to the identification (or otherwise.. and Boo may well be right that its a mishmash).

    I know very little about planes. As anyone who has seen me flapping about can tell you.


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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Revell (model kits) has it as a mark II:

    https://www.scalemates.com/kits/reve...-high--1230361



    Fantasy planes are becoming popular!

    https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airf...ecial--1241168


    Here is a build of the Iron Maiden Spitfire on one of my favorite kit forums:

    https://forum.largescalemodeller.com...-maiden-build/

    cheers
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2673&dateline=1390351127

    Principle skinner
    .

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    I think, without much fear, i can tell you that you are reading far far too much everything my friend. I rather suspect Revel took their MkII and changed the decals to a fictional squadron to avoid dissing anyones memory (not everyone is an iron maiden fan) and said to Bruce "what you think", Bruce says "er...yeah..do i get royalites?" and off it goes.

    Lets face it, with Eddie the Head at the controls and a tail code of 666 Im pretty sure historical accuaracy was not at the top of their list. Off the pics you posted i would also suggest that the original album art may have even used Douglas Bader's spit as inspiration given his name was likely the most synonimous with the RAF in that period to a layperson.

    So i guess its a MkI(ron).
    Great!

    You are right, it could also bee Douglas Bader's spitfire

    spitfire-mk-ia-wg-cdr-douglas-bader-tangmere-wing-royal-air-force-1941.jpg

    It looks pretty the same as the back cover. So we could be almost completely sure the one in the album design is a Spit Mk I, just need to find out if it's Doe's or Bader's.

    Thanks

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by hprat View Post
    Great!

    You are right, it could also bee Douglas Bader's spitfire

    spitfire-mk-ia-wg-cdr-douglas-bader-tangmere-wing-royal-air-force-1941.jpg

    It looks pretty the same as the back cover. So we could be almost completely sure the one in the album design is a Spit Mk I, just need to find out if it's Doe's or Bader's.

    Thanks
    It's really almost definately with a good deal of certainty very probably neither. Its just art. A even if it is based on something, a lot of spitfires carried the code letter D.

    BUT

    I did a 5 min google-fu.

    Derek Riggs was the album cover artist. So its not too much of a stretch to suss out that DR o Z are his initals (The Z is presumably a phonetic play to make the letters "R" and "Z" sound something like Riggs).

    Its certainly what Revell have taken as their theme and presumably he or the band or both were consulted given the use of the bands mascot and Riggs's incarnation of it along with the orginal artwork as a base. The position of the D that you see would also match a double letter code not a single one positionally. Presumably somewhere in Mr Rigg's possession are some drafts that show more of the code or perhaps it was just all made up on the spot

    So im 99.99% confident its totally fictious to the point its based on no particular spitfire with a .001% chance that something like and old airfix kit's box art of AZ-D or D-B could have been used as inspiration.
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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940







    Last edited by LARRY69; Jul-04-2020 at 01:08.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY69 View Post






    Wow, where are this images taken from? Because in this images it looks like the plane is the one Boo suggested, from Douglas Bader, as it's featuring also Baders' "flag".

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    It's really almost definately with a good deal of certainty very probably neither. Its just art. A even if it is based on something, a lot of spitfires carried the code letter D.

    BUT

    I did a 5 min google-fu.

    Derek Riggs was the album cover artist. So its not too much of a stretch to suss out that DR o Z are his initals (The Z is presumably a phonetic play to make the letters "R" and "Z" sound something like Riggs).

    Its certainly what Revell have taken as their theme and presumably he or the band or both were consulted given the use of the bands mascot and Riggs's incarnation of it along with the orginal artwork as a base. The position of the D that you see would also match a double letter code not a single one positionally. Presumably somewhere in Mr Rigg's possession are some drafts that show more of the code or perhaps it was just all made up on the spot

    So im 99.99% confident its totally fictious to the point its based on no particular spitfire with a .001% chance that something like and old airfix kit's box art of AZ-D or D-B could have been used as inspiration.
    Yes! I thought the same watching the model kit, "DR" could be from Derek Riggss. but the album's back cover was designed by another design company, "The Artful Dodgers", not Derek Riggs himself, but you're true it can be just fictious. So the the letter would be a "D" or "Dsomething" due to the position. And being that said, and taking into account the songs subjet, Battle of Britain, I could just fantasize it's Doe's or Bader's plane.

    If it was Bader's spitfire it would be a Mk IIa, if it was Doe's it's a MK I. I guess there's nothing in the cabin, let's say, that can distinguish one Spitfire from another.

    Thankgs for your investigations, Boo
    Last edited by hprat; Jul-04-2020 at 11:28.

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    I just made a Douglas Bader Spitfire Skin (was a Spitfire Mk IIa, and later he got POW over France with a Spitfire Mk Va), with the Iron Maiden logo. Change the pilots head with a Custom Skin of "Eddie" and made some Pictures. Thats all.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY69 View Post
    Thats all.
    Oh... that's all... ?!?!

    So modest Larry

    Can you make me a skin that makes my plane look like it's already been shot to hell and back?

    Figured iI could use it as a cloaking device

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    hmmm -Even Eddie looks more attractive than those dudes in the 88.
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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY69 View Post
    I just made a Douglas Bader Spitfire Skin (was a Spitfire Mk IIa, and later he got POW over France with a Spitfire Mk Va), with the Iron Maiden logo. Change the pilots head with a Custom Skin of "Eddie" and made some Pictures. Thats all.
    Where did you found that Eddie face, mate? It's awesome!

    Oh...And the shots are beautiful, as usual!

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by danperin View Post
    Where did you found that Eddie face, mate? It's awesome!

    Oh...And the shots are beautiful, as usual!
    ..In the WORLD WIDE WEB, Mate! ..in the WORLD WIDE WEB!

    For those who want... Spitfire + Eddies Face Skin.

    http://www.mediafire.com/file/qy29qg...itfire.7z/file

    (Sir Douglas Bader.. please forgive me!)
    Last edited by LARRY69; Jul-04-2020 at 16:28.
    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY69 View Post
    ..In the WORLD WIDE WEB, Mate! ..in the WORLD WIDE WEB!

    For those who want... Spitfire + Eddies Face Skin.

    http://www.mediafire.com/file/qy29qg...itfire.7z/file

    (Sir Douglas Bader.. please forgive me!)
    Thank you a lot for sharing!

    You should upload this pack on the skins section...Just saying

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    It's good here isn't it?


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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Having said that


    The words "Eddie face skin"

    Sleep well children.

    Sleep well.







    What was that?


    Guys?

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    Having said that


    The words "Eddie face skin"

    Sleep well children.

    Sleep well.







    What was that?


    Guys?


    http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r739/larry691/GZ-H%201_zpsdphexiii.jpg

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    Re: Spitfire MK-I..AZ-D of 234 Sq flown by Bob Doe.1940

    Hi!

    I've got two interesting answers today, one from Album cover designer, Derek Riggs, one from Supermarine. They both point that the design is pretty inaccurate. Riggs says:

    "ALL of the details that you mention are completely incidental and mean nothing. I know because I put them in there because I have to fill a painting up with something. Eddie is just a pilot, the plane is just a spitfire. you should be able to tell that by the shape of the canopy. I really don't want to get into beating the shit out of every little detail when most of it is just random stuff anyway. It isn't what you think it is. All my paintings were done in three or four days, that's very fast. they were never heavily worked out as you seem to imagine. all of the incidental details are just stuff I made up. Some of it is correct because I know a lot of stuff."

    And last but not least, Supermarine answered me:

    "The pictures show the early externally mounted bulletproof windscreen , later aircraft like the MKIX have internally mounted screens.

    The front view would more likely be a MKV as it features a round rear view mirror, most early 1’s and II’s had square mirrors.

    The front view shows a “blown” canopy with it’s bulged sides, the side view shows a flat sided early canopy with the oval knock out panel, they are just pictures not historically accurate

    No MKV’s fought in the Battle of Britain."

    So the plane at the front does not fit with the one in the back, and the one in the front did not battled in the Battle of Britain. So no need to dig further, is just a brilliant piece of inaccurated art.

    Thanks to all for your answers!

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