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Thread: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

  1. #31
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivank View Post
    Mission designers will need to be very careful here. Changes coming in 4.01 as Buzz has implied will see Crosswind limits becoming a real issue.... you WILL run out of directional control. Not an issue for those Grass "All over" fields as that is what they were designed for, just take off and land into wind as required. Sealed strips on the other hand could easily result in being outside crosswind limits.

    Crosswind Limits. 12-15Knots (22-27Kmh or 6-7msec) are a typical limit IRL for these types. From a game playabilty point of view I would suggest no more than 3/4 of these values for surface winds. Do whatever you like with in reason for upper level winds. Again with upper winds its reasonable to state what the winds are in the mission briefing ... for both navigation purposes and bombing purposes. On most occasions a forecast wind would be known before take off. Bombardiers and Navigators would IRL calculate a Bombing/Nav wind on the way to the target. This can actually be done in game but is a laborious process and imo unsuited for gameplay. Mission Designers should provide a wind v altitude table for their missions where they use wind.

    So 4.01 Mission designers will need to consider crosswind limits especially for operations from sealed runways. Mission designers should in the brief clearly state the Wind direction (where it is COMING FROM) and velocity to allow players to decide on take off and landing directions. of course we really need a working windsock (something to come I hope). Landing wise it may not be such a big issue for the player as if he has having to much of a hard time then a diversion to a grass field with an into wind runway is available (realistic). Takeoff from a spawn point of view might be a real issue for sealed runways. If the crosswind is excessive you might just end inspecting your own derriere's

    Those aeroplanes with lockable tailwheels will have a little more margin... though there are only a few in CLOD.
    Ivank got me interested in if there where any historic details for weather conditions during the battle period especially wind conditions.

    after an hour of searching the best i came up with this site.
    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/archive/...r-report-1940s

    later i found this site, but as it's in German it was alittle hard to navigate around. But any mission builders with german language skills i think it would be of a great help.
    http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsreaeur.html

    screen shot off site
    Rrea00119400801.gif

    if anyone needs help with the info you can gleen from the above map give me a shout and i can go into it in more detail

  2. #32
    Ace Injerin's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by LG1.Jaeger View Post
    I do not know, I find it hard already to hit targets from 6k + and added wind would make you calculate more than flying. Add this to me being a favorite target in a HE-111 for all Spits and hurries in the aerie, things are starting to look pretty grim
    I think in a round about way you just described immersion
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  3. #33
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Crosswinds still give me nightmares after I nearly came a cropper in real life. I took off from a field with just one strip and the wind was pretty much down the strip. When I came back 30 minutes later it had veered 30 degrees and picked up in strength but I had no radio so did not know. I just could not understand why even though I was lined up nicely on finals I kept finding myself drifting towards the trees to one side of the runway. I adjusted and lined up straight twice before I twigged what was happening and pointed my nose into wind and kicked it straight as I landed and I was lucky to get away with it! Yes, I should have been prepared for the wind changing and recognised the problem earlier but I was a fairly new pilot and had never had the wind change significantly before. Still, you live and you learn (assuming you *do* live )
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  4. #34
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    As Bolox pointed out we do actually have a working windsock. So mission designers should think about where they put it and make it easily visible. Putting the White X banner marker under it helps a lot. Typical locations would be close to each runway end and for airfields with sealed Cross strips perhaps an additional centre field windsock close to the runway intersection.

    Last edited by Ivank; Dec-28-2013 at 17:06.

  5. #35
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by coldstreamer View Post
    Ivank got me interested in if there where any historic details for weather conditions during the battle period especially wind conditions.

    after an hour of searching the best i came up with this site.
    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/archive/...r-report-1940s

    later i found this site, but as it's in German it was alittle hard to navigate around. But any mission builders with german language skills i think it would be of a great help.
    http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsreaeur.html

    screen shot off site
    Rrea00119400801.gif

    if anyone needs help with the info you can gleen from the above map give me a shout and i can go into it in more detail
    Another great Link :

    http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/631...weather-diary/

  6. #36
    Ace 9./JG52 Reinhart's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    I really thought you had it at the end but as they say "any landing you walk away from is a good one"



  7. #37
    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Ziegler's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss View Post
    Hi Nitrous. It's not even worth making a video tutorial. All you have to do is go the FMB, go to "Mission Properites" (where you set time of day etc) and to add wind/thermal elements simply click on the "ADD FLOW" tab. So in reality you could add as my "Flows" as you like. For instance, from 0-1000m could be one flow with a wind direction of X, an average wind speed of Y, how strong of wind effect (constant or varying wind) and even the direction or vector of the wind in the 3rd dimension +/- 45 degrees. So you could add several different wind environments based on altitude, and if you really wanted to, you could essentially create any sort of turbulence you want.

    Attached is a sample mission that has a couple flow areas. Try out a landing with this one

    Attachment 6373
    Very heavy winds, just look at the smoke at Oye Plage. Watch the rollout, it's about 50 feet with no brakes to a dead stop. Ground speed was about 50k at touchdown. After it stopped the plane was blowing backwards.
    Last edited by 9./JG52 Ziegler; Dec-29-2013 at 17:27.
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52 Ziegler View Post
    Very heavy winds, just look at the smoke at Oye Plage. Watch the rollout, it's about 50 feet with no brakes to a dead stop. Ground speed was about 50k at touchdown. After it stopped the plane was blowing backwards.

    Hey Zeigler That was "Into" the wind: Have you tried the crosswind: If im correct you have full size experience right

    Its really a hoot, you should have no problem, not exactly how strong that wind is, we have been posting the videos here

    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...2412#post82412


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  9. #39
    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Ziegler's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Yeah I have 2200hrs fixed and about 860 rotory Knucks.

    I chose that runway because it was the only one I thought would be close to being able to handle the component and wanted to demo the other method (less crab angle).

    The other one that you used was second (the only other) choice as the smoke looked like it was kind of in the middle of those two with the longer one maybe a little less x-wind.

    I'll try the runway 36 also.
    Last edited by 9./JG52 Ziegler; Dec-29-2013 at 20:23.
    Corsair 600T-Gigabite Gigabyte Z77-UD5 mobo-I7 Ivy Bridge 3770k@3.5ghz-Scythe Ninja 3 -16g HyperX- EVGA GTX 670 FTW-HyperX SSD-Logitech G19-Cyborg Ratz 9-CH Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and throttle with MFG Crosswind pedals, BenQ 2420T monitor, Track IR-5, Obutto Rev3. http://9jg52.com/

    Glückliche sieben

  10. #40
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52 Ziegler View Post
    Yeah I have 2200hrs fixed and about 860 rotory Knucks.

    I chose that runway because it was the only one I thought would be close to being able to handle the component and wanted to demo the other method (less crab angle).

    The other one that you used was second (the only other) choice as the smoke looked like it was kind of in the middle of those two with the longer one maybe a little less x-wind.

    I'll try the runway 36 also.
    Ahh good to know who here has full sized time, I have about the same in fixed, no rotary, I have my A & P and most of my time is old classic aircraft I have restored, and taken on the air show circuit. Personally sometimes I think my full size time hinders my simulator skills, as usually they are modeled a bit different and flying like they are real dosent always work.


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  12. #41
    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Ziegler's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knuckles View Post
    Ahh good to know who here has full sized time, I have about the same in fixed, no rotary, I have my A & P and most of my time is old classic aircraft I have restored, and taken on the air show circuit. Personally sometimes I think my full size time hinders my simulator skills, as usually they are modeled a bit different and flying like they are real dosent always work.
    Yep I agree with you about the difference with sims and full size.
    The good ones are close and some of the same techniques work (sort of), but I think my real time has hindered me too, truth be told.
    I get smoked by Gamers all the time.
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    Glückliche sieben

  13. #42
    Ace 9./JG52 Reinhart's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss View Post
    Hi folks. Based on some comments about the FMs feeling like they are on rails, I decided to actually turn on some realistic weather and try to make a landing. This was 35 meters per second wind with a -45 degree gust angle and I added a few thermal areas as well. Needless to say, I didn't quite "stick" the landing as I was just about flying sideways



    Edit: Attached is a slightly tamer mission for everyone to try your landings with. The current plane is a 109, but could easily be changed to w/e you desire.

    Lets see some landings

    Attachment 6374

    I finally found this mission... totally doing this and uploading a video.

    See-decide-attack-reverse.

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  15. #43
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52 Reinhart View Post
    I finally found this mission... totally doing this and uploading a video.
    I think I need to redo it and make it harder for you


    "The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself". - Archibald Macleish


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  17. #44
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss View Post
    I think I need to redo it and make it harder for you
    Why?

    See-decide-attack-reverse.

  18. #45
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52 Reinhart View Post
    Why?
    Because you could probably land it just fine with that mission.


    "The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself". - Archibald Macleish


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  20. #46
    Ace 9./JG52 Reinhart's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss View Post
    Because you could probably land it just fine with that mission.
    Ahhhh okay, yeah I'd rather a "wrath of the gods" type of wind speed.

    See-decide-attack-reverse.

  21. #47
    Combat pilot JG4_Lebano's Avatar
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing

    Hey guys,
    thank you ATAG_Bliss. This is my result...

    Per Aspera ad Astra

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  23. #48
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    Re: Cliffs of Dover Crosswind Landing


    Per Aspera ad Astra

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