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Thread: USB Interface for DIY

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    OK.

    Make a test in games with this rotary switch you have to see if are collateral effects.

    The fact that contact is always ON in positions will be like the "toggle"(latch) switches on Warthog base throttle - in DCS work OK because is possible change commands behavior in LUA files for see command in ON and OFF states of switches. In "flight games" like IL-2 BoS became problematic because this see only momentary commands (ON), resulting awkward use this kind o switch without external keymaper with "mapped key on press" and "mapped key on release" ability (e.g. SVMapper).



    Or buy a new rotary switch, but the "non-shorting" type, this send only momentary command between positions:



    http://www.brimal.co.uk/rotary-switc...lder-tags.html

    Is possible make permanent contact switch send only momentary contact using optocouplers or capacitors circuit, but will be additional complication.

    BTW - Post this question in SimHQ MMjoy2 topic, maybe Mega_MOZG (MMJoy2 firmware author) have a suggestion of what can be done in JoySetup configurations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jameswgm View Post
    Yeah I'm looking at 3 turn ones, my X52 is essentially one turn and don't feel I have the right sensitivity for adjustments. I believe the Spit had 2 turns either ways so 3 turn pot would be happy medium. What's the throw length of the sliders? 80mm?
    Yup, 80mm. Pretty cheap, got them off ebay or amazon, can't remember which...

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by diziet View Post
    Yup, 80mm. Pretty cheap, got them off ebay or amazon, can't remember which...
    Nice one, I've just ordered my parts, hopefully have my own trimming setup to display soon. Many thanks to the inspiration of posters in this thread

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Hi again...

    I finished my button box, and working well, 36 buttons with push buttons, toggle switch and rotarys switch, this one, working as push button with 250 ms delay.

    2hy7mb.jpg

    2qwed8k.jpg

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Wow, looks great.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Finished my trim panel, the 3 turn pots work well for adjusting trim accurately. 100mm sliders also give v. effective control of rads/prop pitch. Next up a switch module to attach. Leo Bodnar 'A type' board was plug and play, so thumbs up for that.

    Would post pics but the forum is having issues with them.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Alternatively, upload you pictures for www.postimage.com and past the links there.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Looks nice.

    You find slider pot with a very big course.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    -clip-
    I finally ordered my Arduino supplies and hoped you could answer me a question. Rotary encoders take up 2 button inputs correct? so If I used 2 encoders I could only use 28 other buttons before 32 button limit was reached? Sorry to bother I just want to make sure I keep button count to 32 so it works smoothly across all games.

    **Also just remembered, I planned on using a shift register to avoid the button matrix/diodes and was unsure as to what switches would work best with them? Would I be fine using the momentary on-off-on switches?
    Last edited by PhoenixCNE; Sep-28-2017 at 18:30.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    Rotary encoders take up 2 button inputs correct? so If I used 2 encoders I could only use 28 other buttons before 32 button limit was reached?
    1 - Correctly, each encoder take 2 buttons position, could be 3 if the encoder is press to click type.
    2 - Correctly, just deduce 2/3 buttons from 32* for each encoder, can use the rest normally.
    - MMjoy2 firmware limite the use of encoders to six (6), other controller can use up to 16.


    * This 32 buttons is Windows limit, modern flight games like DCSW and new IL-2 BoS can use more buttons, up to 128 and 64 respectively.

    Old IL-2's - CloD included, follow Windows 32 buttons (+POV HAT) limit.

    MMjoy2 firmware allow use up to 120 buttons - depends on used Arduino board pins available.
    In that case buttons above 32 need use keyboard emulation (Joy2Key, Xpadder, SVMapper, Joystick Gremlin...) to be used in "old" games.

    Anyway use to much buttons in one controller complicate wiring, and since Arduino is cheap, better use more than one board, that depends on game support, IL-2'46 see up to 4 controls, CloD up to 9 (what I know that someone has tested).

    Ancient flight games from 2000 support only one controller.

    **Also just remembered, I planned on using a shift register to avoid the button matrix/diodes and was unsure as to what switches would work best with them? Would I be fine using the momentary on-off-on switches?
    For the controller, using Diode Matrix or Shift Register don't mater if the button is push, toggle momentary or toggle latch.

    Toggle latch has limited games support - AFAIK only DCS A-10C in their Warthog profile, because games looks for command only in ON state of toggle switch, not in OFF stage. This result awkward in practice, you flip up a toggle switch for turn ON, e.g. lights, but for turn lights OFF need flip the switch down and up again.

    Keymapper like Joy2key, SVMapper... can translate this OFF state of switch in key press.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Sep-28-2017 at 18:49.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    I finally ordered my Arduino supplies and hoped you could answer me a question. Rotary encoders take up 2 button inputs correct? so If I used 2 encoders I could only use 28 other buttons before 32 button limit was reached? Sorry to bother I just want to make sure I keep button count to 32 so it works smoothly across all games.

    **Also just remembered, I planned on using a shift register to avoid the button matrix/diodes and was unsure as to what switches would work best with them? Would I be fine using the momentary on-off-on switches?
    haha !!

    i was gonna say 1lokos is your man... and he posted as i was typing !



    man... i really dont want to I really don't want to come off as a sycophant

    Uhh !!!!


    but... he is definately the guy !


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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    haha !!

    i was gonna say 1lokos is your man... and he posted as i was typing !



    man... i really dont want to I really don't want to come off as a sycophant

    Uhh !!!!


    but... he is definately the guy !
    Lol he is for sure! Knowing that you gents are here to ask questions too was definitely the deciding factor in me getting myself into this project, always grateful for all the friendly help.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    1 - Correctly, each encoder take 2 buttons position, could be 3 if the encoder is press to click type.
    2 - Correctly, just deduce 2/3 buttons from 32* for each encoder, can use the rest normally.
    - MMjoy2 firmware limite the use of encoders to six (6), other controller can use up to 16.


    * This 32 buttons is Windows limit, modern flight games like DCSW and new IL-2 BoS can use more buttons, up to 128 and 64 respectively.

    Old IL-2's - CloD included, follow Windows 32 buttons (+POV HAT) limit.

    MMjoy2 firmware allow use up to 120 buttons - depends on used Arduino board pins available.
    In that case buttons above 32 need use keyboard emulation (Joy2Key, Xpadder, SVMapper, Joystick Gremlin...) to be used in "old" games.

    Anyway use to much buttons in one controller complicate wiring, and since Arduino is cheap, better use more than one board, that depends on game support, IL-2'46 see up to 4 controls, CloD up to 9 (what I know that someone has tested).

    Ancient flight games from 2000 support only one controller.



    For the controller, using Diode Matrix or Shift Register don't mater if the button is push, toggle momentary or toggle latch.

    Toggle latch has limited games support - AFAIK only DCS A-10C in their Warthog profile, because games looks for command only in ON state of toggle switch, not in OFF stage. This result awkward in practice, you flip up a toggle switch for turn ON, e.g. lights, but for turn lights OFF need flip the switch down and up again.

    Keymapper like Joy2key, SVMapper... can translate this OFF state of switch in key press.

    One final question before I order the rest of my parts and pieces. What is desirable ohm rating for rotary/slide pots or does it matter? I have no idea what brand is a "good" potentiometer to trust won't spike all over in a month or 2.
    Last edited by PhoenixCNE; Sep-28-2017 at 23:07.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    For USB controllers use 10 to 50 K, linear type - B taper potentiometer.

    Good brands is Bourns, Alps, Spectrol.

    Depends for what you plan use find the correct pot' will be problematic, because 99.9% of pot you find for buy is with 270-360 degrees turn - "effective electrical angle".

    That 270-360 models are not suitable for joystick gimbal because joystick movement is 20~30 degrees for each side, so need pot with limited "effective electrical angle" - made for industry, rarely available in conventional stores. Example:

    http://www.polyshine.cn/uploadFile/F...3-03-27-55.pdf
    See in "joystick potentiometer": http://www.polyshine.cn/Products.html

    Joystick industry use this models with limited "effective electrical angle".
    In practice this type of pot made joysticks (that use pot) disposable, since is almost impossible find replacements - exception CH, that provide replacements.

    For button box with trim devices a alternative is use slide type pot, since they have short travel allow easily use all their "effective electrical angle", 270/360 degrees models is OK for trim, but better is multiturn pot, with 3 or 5 turns. 10 turn make the trim adjust boring slow.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    For USB controllers use 10 to 50 K, linear type - B taper potentiometer.

    Good brands is Bourns, Alps, Spectrol.

    Depends for what you plan use find the correct pot' will be problematic, because 99.9% of pot you find for buy is with 270-360 degrees turn - "effective electrical angle".

    That 270-360 models are not suitable for joystick gimbal because joystick movement is 20~30 degrees for each side, so need pot with limited "effective electrical angle" - made for industry, rarely available in conventional stores. Example:

    http://www.polyshine.cn/uploadFile/F...3-03-27-55.pdf
    See in "joystick potentiometer": http://www.polyshine.cn/Products.html

    Joystick industry use this models with limited "effective electrical angle".
    In practice this type of pot made joysticks (that use pot) disposable, since is almost impossible find replacements - exception CH, that provide replacements.

    For button box with trim devices a alternative is use slide type pot, since they have short travel allow easily use all their "effective electrical angle", 270/360 degrees models is OK for trim, but better is multiturn pot, with 3 or 5 turns. 10 turn make the trim adjust boring slow.
    After some poking around I found the applicable versions of http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/385126-45223.pdf and http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/tf-777978.pdf that I can order from the same place at a reasonable cost. Just need to nail down the momentary encoders and should be ready to roll. Thanks for all your help sir.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Anybody know if any patents on Force Feedback joysticks are still active?
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Anybody know if any patents on Force Feedback joysticks are still active?
    Have no idea if this helps, but you could check this https://www.google.com/patents/US5742278

    Immersion is mentioned in that link ("Referenced By" section down the page), so check this https://www.tomsguide.com/us/motorol...ews-14141.html
    Last edited by FightingSteel1; Oct-10-2017 at 00:12.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by FightingSteel1 View Post
    Have no idea if this helps, but you could check this https://www.google.com/patents/US5742278

    Immersion is mentioned in that link ("Referenced By" section down the page), so check this https://www.tomsguide.com/us/motorol...ews-14141.html

    Looks like the Microsoft patent would have expired in 2015, and the Immersion patents don't look like they apply in the case of a joystick, but I guess a patent lawyer would have to give the final say. Seems a shame no-one is making FF joysticks any more for flight sims. I'd like to explore doing it, but don't have a lot of money to put into it. Maybe if I can sell some of my joystick controllers to finance it...
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Looks like the Microsoft patent would have expired in 2015, and the Immersion patents don't look like they apply in the case of a joystick, but I guess a patent lawyer would have to give the final say. Seems a shame no-one is making FF joysticks any more for flight sims. I'd like to explore doing it, but don't have a lot of money to put into it. Maybe if I can sell some of my joystick controllers to finance it...
    You would think that, but the Immersion story suggests they *think* their patent applies to Joysticks, and therefore require licensing for companies to do that. All I know is I've heard FF is some kind of legal/licensing mess and peripheral companies don't even bother anymore.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Last edited by Kendy for the State; Oct-11-2017 at 08:59.
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Makes me wish I had invested in a 3d printer a while ago, looks very good! I'm finally to the point in my project that I have to wire everything all up (and realizing how little I know what I'm doing) and now I realize the shift registers I have won't work with mmjoy2 so more waiting : / Kind of wish I had seen you sold joystick controllers before I went this route lol.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    Makes me wish I had invested in a 3d printer a while ago, looks very good! I'm finally to the point in my project that I have to wire everything all up (and realizing how little I know what I'm doing) and now I realize the shift registers I have won't work with mmjoy2 so more waiting : / Kind of wish I had seen you sold joystick controllers before I went this route lol.
    I've redone this controller in surface mount, prototype PCBs should be arriving in the next week or so. Board will be a lot smaller and cheaper to make... I forgot what a pain it is to stuff and solder through-hole circuit boards until I started producing these!

    GFComputeModule.png

    BTW, 3D printers can be pretty cheap these days for the hobbyist machines... on the order of $200... check youtube for reviews.
    Last edited by Kendy for the State; Oct-10-2017 at 23:44.
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    I'm having a hard time getting things together for the shift register board I need to construct now. Could somebody please point me to a link with the exact items I would need as far as resistors and capacitors? I realize I need a 10k resistor and .1uf cap but am becoming overwhelmed with voltage ratings and finding something suitable for mounting to a proto board which is what I will likely have to make this out of(my lack of knowledge in this kind of electronics is really showing now lol). Any help would be appreciated, was planning on using a HC165 shift register. And by all means if you know of anyplace I can order a premade PCB for an HC165 please do tell! Thanks in advance you gents have been a lifesaver repeatedly. I knew the fab work was going the be the easy part for me.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    I'm having a hard time getting things together for the shift register board I need to construct now. Could somebody please point me to a link with the exact items I would need as far as resistors and capacitors? I realize I need a 10k resistor and .1uf cap but am becoming overwhelmed with voltage ratings and finding something suitable for mounting to a proto board which is what I will likely have to make this out of(my lack of knowledge in this kind of electronics is really showing now lol). Any help would be appreciated, was planning on using a HC165 shift register. And by all means if you know of anyplace I can order a premade PCB for an HC165 please do tell! Thanks in advance you gents have been a lifesaver repeatedly. I knew the fab work was going the be the easy part for me.
    What is the purpose of the shift register?
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Shift Register is used for buttons decode instead used Diode Matrix, their advantage is less wires from Shift PCB to main circuit (5) and ability to chain one in other, allow increase the buttons connection (limited to USB controller support - some is 32, some 128...)

    Witout use Shift Register or Diode Matrix you are limited - by pins available, to use few buttons, e.g. Bu08336 without use Diode Matrix (don't support Shift Register) is limited to 12 buttons.

    PhoenixCNE

    For simplify hift Register assembly you can use Resistor Network (11 pins):

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-RKL1...cAAOxybqpRhs7P

    Voltage supported by this components don't matter, as will be used little - but since component that support more voltage is bigger, so get the smaller, like 1/8v or less.

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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    Shift Register is used for buttons decode instead used Diode Matrix, their advantage is less wires from Shift PCB to main circuit (5) and ability to chain one in other, allow increase the buttons connection (limited to USB controller support - some is 32, some 128...)

    Witout use Shift Register or Diode Matrix you are limited - by pins available, to use few buttons, e.g. Bu08336 without use Diode Matrix (don't support Shift Register) is limited to 12 buttons.

    PhoenixCNE

    For simplify hift Register assembly you can use Resistor Network (11 pins):

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-RKL1...cAAOxybqpRhs7P

    Voltage supported by this components don't matter, as will be used little - but since component that support more voltage is bigger, so get the smaller, like 1/8v or less.

    OK, yeah, I avoid matrix buttons like the plague! They are a pain.

    Three controllers that I know of that provide for all joystick buttons with no additional circuitry:

    Bodnar BU0836X - I looked into this for my controllers, but at the time would have cost close to $100 US to get here, with exchange rate and shipping.

    Teensy 2++ - only $20 US, I used this for my first controller, but there was a problem with the USB descriptors which cause weird problems with some programs on some of the analog axes. I spoke with Paul, the guy who designed it and he acknowledged there was a problem and that he was in a hurry when he wrote the joystick support, but he was not interested in fixing it because he had moved on the the Teensy 3.0.

    Gear-Falcon Joystick Controller - I designed this specifically with the above controllers in mind. I needed a controller that was cheaper then Bodnars, and worked specifically as a joystick controller, rather than a general-purpose machine like the Teensy. The most expensive part of my board is those darn 2.5mm Euro-connectors. If you get the board without the connectors and just solder directly to the PCB it is a lot cheaper. Once I make the SMT version I will be selling it even cheaper without the connectors.
    Last edited by Kendy for the State; Oct-11-2017 at 13:15.
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    @PhoenixCNE: You should give Kendy's boards a look too as he has them for sale and he'd help you through the process. You shouldn't have to mess with resistors or ICs. You can plug most stuff in.

    For my arduino, I made some RC circuits for hardware debounce on switches (so one click doesn't send multiple spikes) but many boards have that built in.

    As for printers, I bought my Anet A8 for a little over $200 from ...er...Wal-Mart of all places. I print in ABS @ $20 a spool. Super cheap! See prints below.

    @Kendy, I'm glad to see your project is still alive! Custom force feedback work from you would be awesome (for high stick force kits).


    demo_pic.jpg
    Blaster_sm.jpg

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    Supporting Member Kendy for the State's Avatar
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by 69th_Zeb View Post
    @PhoenixCNE: You should give Kendy's boards a look too as he has them for sale and he'd help you through the process. You shouldn't have to mess with resistors or ICs. You can plug most stuff in.

    For my arduino, I made some RC circuits for hardware debounce on switches (so one click doesn't send multiple spikes) but many boards have that built in.

    As for printers, I bought my Anet A8 for a little over $200 from ...er...Wal-Mart of all places. I print in ABS @ $20 a spool. Super cheap! See prints below.

    @Kendy, I'm glad to see your project is still alive! Custom force feedback work from you would be awesome (for high stick force kits).


    demo_pic.jpg
    Blaster_sm.jpg
    Cool gunsight... I'm thinking of doing one (non-working)with switches built in for distance and wingspan adjustment.
    Recently updated the firmware for my controller to filter out jitter on potentiomers...even the best pots vary up and doing a few steps out of 1024, so by filtering that out it keeps CLOD from detecting jitter as actual movement of the axis. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to do a bootloader for my board yet, so firmware can't be updated in the field. One day when I have time...

    No, not dead... I am doing final testing on parts, plan to see a guy about getting molds made for injection molding before the end of the year.
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Intel Xeon 31230 @ 3.20GHz (4 cores - 8 threads)
    16GB RAM
    NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
    512GB SSD
    LG 4K 43" TV
    Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller
    Gear-Falcon DIY Quadrant and Trim

    "Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf

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  39. #89
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Nice work fella's

    On 3D printing, what material filaments are you printing with, and do the hobbyist printers handle nylon?
    Last edited by Vlerkies; Oct-12-2017 at 04:59.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

    If it's brown, shoot it down!

  40. #90
    Supporting Member Kendy for the State's Avatar
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    Re: USB Interface for DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlerkies View Post
    Nice work fella's

    On 3D printing, what material filaments are you printing with, and do the hobbyist printers handle nylon?
    I mostly use PLA because it is easy to work with... as long as you have a fan on the print head to cool it immediately it holds its shape very well. I sometimes use ABS, but shrinking and warping are really a problem on larger parts. I've tried a few things with PETG, which is supposed to combine the qualities of ABS and PLA, but in my opinion it combines the drawbacks of the two even more.
    My printer won't do nylon, as I don't have a hot enough hot-end. That's one of the few things I haven't modified yet on my Solidoodle, though it is in the plan eventually.

    I get my filament from Makergeeks.com for $15/spool.
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Intel Xeon 31230 @ 3.20GHz (4 cores - 8 threads)
    16GB RAM
    NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
    512GB SSD
    LG 4K 43" TV
    Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller
    Gear-Falcon DIY Quadrant and Trim

    "Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf

  41. Likes Vlerkies liked this post
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