Hi again...
I finished my button box, and working well, 36 buttons with push buttons, toggle switch and rotarys switch, this one, working as push button with 250 ms delay.
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Wow, looks great.
Finished my trim panel, the 3 turn pots work well for adjusting trim accurately. 100mm sliders also give v. effective control of rads/prop pitch. Next up a switch module to attach. Leo Bodnar 'A type' board was plug and play, so thumbs up for that.
Would post pics but the forum is having issues with them.
Alternatively, upload you pictures for www.postimage.com and past the links there.
Looks nice.
You find slider pot with a very big course.
I finally ordered my Arduino supplies and hoped you could answer me a question. Rotary encoders take up 2 button inputs correct? so If I used 2 encoders I could only use 28 other buttons before 32 button limit was reached? Sorry to bother I just want to make sure I keep button count to 32 so it works smoothly across all games.
**Also just remembered, I planned on using a shift register to avoid the button matrix/diodes and was unsure as to what switches would work best with them? Would I be fine using the momentary on-off-on switches?
Last edited by PhoenixCNE; Sep-28-2017 at 18:30.
1 - Correctly, each encoder take 2 buttons position, could be 3 if the encoder is press to click type.
2 - Correctly, just deduce 2/3 buttons from 32* for each encoder, can use the rest normally.
- MMjoy2 firmware limite the use of encoders to six (6), other controller can use up to 16.
* This 32 buttons is Windows limit, modern flight games like DCSW and new IL-2 BoS can use more buttons, up to 128 and 64 respectively.
Old IL-2's - CloD included, follow Windows 32 buttons (+POV HAT) limit.
MMjoy2 firmware allow use up to 120 buttons - depends on used Arduino board pins available.
In that case buttons above 32 need use keyboard emulation (Joy2Key, Xpadder, SVMapper, Joystick Gremlin...) to be used in "old" games.
Anyway use to much buttons in one controller complicate wiring, and since Arduino is cheap, better use more than one board, that depends on game support, IL-2'46 see up to 4 controls, CloD up to 9 (what I know that someone has tested).
Ancient flight games from 2000 support only one controller.
For the controller, using Diode Matrix or Shift Register don't mater if the button is push, toggle momentary or toggle latch.**Also just remembered, I planned on using a shift register to avoid the button matrix/diodes and was unsure as to what switches would work best with them? Would I be fine using the momentary on-off-on switches?
Toggle latch has limited games support - AFAIK only DCS A-10C in their Warthog profile, because games looks for command only in ON state of toggle switch, not in OFF stage. This result awkward in practice, you flip up a toggle switch for turn ON, e.g. lights, but for turn lights OFF need flip the switch down and up again.
Keymapper like Joy2key, SVMapper... can translate this OFF state of switch in key press.
Last edited by 1lokos; Sep-28-2017 at 18:49.
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Highseas Peripherals
- Engine Switch Panel - Munitions Switch Panel - Throttle Quadrant Trim Box - Helicopter Collective - Analogue Brake Lever -
Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey
Last edited by PhoenixCNE; Sep-28-2017 at 23:07.
For USB controllers use 10 to 50 K, linear type - B taper potentiometer.
Good brands is Bourns, Alps, Spectrol.
Depends for what you plan use find the correct pot' will be problematic, because 99.9% of pot you find for buy is with 270-360 degrees turn - "effective electrical angle".
That 270-360 models are not suitable for joystick gimbal because joystick movement is 20~30 degrees for each side, so need pot with limited "effective electrical angle" - made for industry, rarely available in conventional stores. Example:
http://www.polyshine.cn/uploadFile/F...3-03-27-55.pdf
See in "joystick potentiometer": http://www.polyshine.cn/Products.html
Joystick industry use this models with limited "effective electrical angle".
In practice this type of pot made joysticks (that use pot) disposable, since is almost impossible find replacements - exception CH, that provide replacements.
For button box with trim devices a alternative is use slide type pot, since they have short travel allow easily use all their "effective electrical angle", 270/360 degrees models is OK for trim, but better is multiturn pot, with 3 or 5 turns. 10 turn make the trim adjust boring slow.
After some poking around I found the applicable versions of http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/385126-45223.pdf and http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/tf-777978.pdf that I can order from the same place at a reasonable cost. Just need to nail down the momentary encoders and should be ready to roll. Thanks for all your help sir.
Anybody know if any patents on Force Feedback joysticks are still active?
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
Have no idea if this helps, but you could check this https://www.google.com/patents/US5742278
Immersion is mentioned in that link ("Referenced By" section down the page), so check this https://www.tomsguide.com/us/motorol...ews-14141.html
Last edited by FightingSteel1; Oct-10-2017 at 00:12.
Looks like the Microsoft patent would have expired in 2015, and the Immersion patents don't look like they apply in the case of a joystick, but I guess a patent lawyer would have to give the final say. Seems a shame no-one is making FF joysticks any more for flight sims. I'd like to explore doing it, but don't have a lot of money to put into it. Maybe if I can sell some of my joystick controllers to finance it...
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
You would think that, but the Immersion story suggests they *think* their patent applies to Joysticks, and therefore require licensing for companies to do that. All I know is I've heard FF is some kind of legal/licensing mess and peripheral companies don't even bother anymore.
I'm grounded for a few days while I rebuild my cockpit...
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Gotta print a couple more parts, then sand and paint.
Last edited by Kendy for the State; Oct-11-2017 at 08:59.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
Makes me wish I had invested in a 3d printer a while ago, looks very good! I'm finally to the point in my project that I have to wire everything all up (and realizing how little I know what I'm doing) and now I realize the shift registers I have won't work with mmjoy2 so more waiting : / Kind of wish I had seen you sold joystick controllers before I went this route lol.
I've redone this controller in surface mount, prototype PCBs should be arriving in the next week or so. Board will be a lot smaller and cheaper to make... I forgot what a pain it is to stuff and solder through-hole circuit boards until I started producing these!
GFComputeModule.png
BTW, 3D printers can be pretty cheap these days for the hobbyist machines... on the order of $200... check youtube for reviews.
Last edited by Kendy for the State; Oct-10-2017 at 23:44.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
I'm having a hard time getting things together for the shift register board I need to construct now. Could somebody please point me to a link with the exact items I would need as far as resistors and capacitors? I realize I need a 10k resistor and .1uf cap but am becoming overwhelmed with voltage ratings and finding something suitable for mounting to a proto board which is what I will likely have to make this out of(my lack of knowledge in this kind of electronics is really showing now lol). Any help would be appreciated, was planning on using a HC165 shift register. And by all means if you know of anyplace I can order a premade PCB for an HC165 please do tell! Thanks in advance you gents have been a lifesaver repeatedly. I knew the fab work was going the be the easy part for me.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
Shift Register is used for buttons decode instead used Diode Matrix, their advantage is less wires from Shift PCB to main circuit (5) and ability to chain one in other, allow increase the buttons connection (limited to USB controller support - some is 32, some 128...)
Witout use Shift Register or Diode Matrix you are limited - by pins available, to use few buttons, e.g. Bu08336 without use Diode Matrix (don't support Shift Register) is limited to 12 buttons.
PhoenixCNE
For simplify hift Register assembly you can use Resistor Network (11 pins):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-RKL1...cAAOxybqpRhs7P
Voltage supported by this components don't matter, as will be used little - but since component that support more voltage is bigger, so get the smaller, like 1/8v or less.
OK, yeah, I avoid matrix buttons like the plague! They are a pain.
Three controllers that I know of that provide for all joystick buttons with no additional circuitry:
Bodnar BU0836X - I looked into this for my controllers, but at the time would have cost close to $100 US to get here, with exchange rate and shipping.
Teensy 2++ - only $20 US, I used this for my first controller, but there was a problem with the USB descriptors which cause weird problems with some programs on some of the analog axes. I spoke with Paul, the guy who designed it and he acknowledged there was a problem and that he was in a hurry when he wrote the joystick support, but he was not interested in fixing it because he had moved on the the Teensy 3.0.
Gear-Falcon Joystick Controller - I designed this specifically with the above controllers in mind. I needed a controller that was cheaper then Bodnars, and worked specifically as a joystick controller, rather than a general-purpose machine like the Teensy. The most expensive part of my board is those darn 2.5mm Euro-connectors. If you get the board without the connectors and just solder directly to the PCB it is a lot cheaper. Once I make the SMT version I will be selling it even cheaper without the connectors.
Last edited by Kendy for the State; Oct-11-2017 at 13:15.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
@PhoenixCNE: You should give Kendy's boards a look too as he has them for sale and he'd help you through the process. You shouldn't have to mess with resistors or ICs. You can plug most stuff in.
For my arduino, I made some RC circuits for hardware debounce on switches (so one click doesn't send multiple spikes) but many boards have that built in.
As for printers, I bought my Anet A8 for a little over $200 from ...er...Wal-Mart of all places. I print in ABS @ $20 a spool. Super cheap! See prints below.
@Kendy, I'm glad to see your project is still alive! Custom force feedback work from you would be awesome (for high stick force kits).
demo_pic.jpg
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Cool gunsight... I'm thinking of doing one (non-working)with switches built in for distance and wingspan adjustment.
Recently updated the firmware for my controller to filter out jitter on potentiomers...even the best pots vary up and doing a few steps out of 1024, so by filtering that out it keeps CLOD from detecting jitter as actual movement of the axis. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to do a bootloader for my board yet, so firmware can't be updated in the field. One day when I have time...
No, not dead... I am doing final testing on parts, plan to see a guy about getting molds made for injection molding before the end of the year.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
Nice work fella's
On 3D printing, what material filaments are you printing with, and do the hobbyist printers handle nylon?
Last edited by Vlerkies; Oct-12-2017 at 04:59.
If it's brown, shoot it down!
I mostly use PLA because it is easy to work with... as long as you have a fan on the print head to cool it immediately it holds its shape very well. I sometimes use ABS, but shrinking and warping are really a problem on larger parts. I've tried a few things with PETG, which is supposed to combine the qualities of ABS and PLA, but in my opinion it combines the drawbacks of the two even more.
My printer won't do nylon, as I don't have a hot enough hot-end. That's one of the few things I haven't modified yet on my Solidoodle, though it is in the plan eventually.
I get my filament from Makergeeks.com for $15/spool.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
32GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX1080 (Asus Rog Strix GTX 1080)
1 TB SSD
LG 4K 55" TV
Gear-Falcon General Purpose Joystick Controller, Gear-Falcon Quadrant and Trim, Gear-Falcon BF-109 Water Radiator Crank
"Find out what you don't do well, and then DON'T DO IT!" - Alf
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