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Thread: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

  1. #31
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Nice experimental work there Fidge!!...Good to know!
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Fidget View Post
    I agree with this. I tested warm ups on the RAF liquid-cooled fighters and discovered that a warmup at idle takes 3 minutes. A warm up at maximum throttle with smooth engine (about 1600 RPM) will reduce that to 90 seconds. Position of the radiator shutters has no effect. This seems logical with no airflow in the radiators.
    Wouldn't it be affected on the Hurri though? Since the radiator is right behind the prop airflow, would a higher RPM get more air into it, meaning that closed shutters would heat it faster?

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Flare View Post
    Wouldn't it be affected on the Hurri though? Since the radiator is right behind the prop airflow, would a higher RPM get more air into it, meaning that closed shutters would heat it faster?
    Good question.

    I plead ignorance, Flare... My test was on a Spitfire. I can't even remember what variant, but I usually select the MK1A 100 Octane. Original post corrected.

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    The modeling of overheat on the ground is not well handled in CLIFFS OF DOVER.

    The aircraft with radiators on their wings were much quicker to heat up and overheat... to the point a real life pilot had very little time to start up and takeoff, especially in the later very high horsepower models. Aircraft with centrally located radiators, ie. directly behind the prop flow, did not have as much of a problem.

    This issue is something we would like to address, but changes will probably not be included in TF 5.0.

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Very useful advice, thanks!

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    I think the position of the radiator has to be having some effect when you are warming up as there is that strange bug when you land and switch off your engine not facing into wind but don't despawn. The engine will start getting hotter without the prop turning, fair enough, but opening the rad all the way will not stop the temp rising while *closing* the rad cools it very quickly! Perhaps that bug only happens when the engine is off?
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    A brief description of the liquid cooling process for non mechanical players:

    Heat increase is to be expected after engine shutdown. This is a normal response in all liquid cooled internal combustion engines. As the engine runs, the metal surrounding the heat producing components such as cylinders, cylinder heads and bearings becomes very hot. It has to in order for the clearances (distances) between moving parts to stabilize. Once it gets hot enough however, the cooling system opens a thermostatically controlled valve to permit flow of the coolant by means of an engine driven "Water" pump to carry excess heat away from the engine block to the radiator for heat exchange with the outside air. Pretty cool, eh?

    After engine shutdown with a hot engine, the water pump stops, and so does the coolant flow. The radiator can no longer exchange heat to the air, but the hot engine block continues to heat up the coolant. If the engine is extremely hot at shutdown, there may be sufficient energy to bring the coolant to a boil. Boiling is bad... very bad.

    In older automobiles, this effect was easily apparent because the coolant temperature gauges were not electric. You could watch the temperature increase after the motor was shut off. In modern cars, the ignition must be selected on after waiting a minute to see this effect.

    Depending on the design of the engine, you should be able to observe this, even in your new Bentley.
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Ha, glad this got bumped. Flown nothing but Blennies in the last month and a half (save one time last week in a hurricane). For me, having a baseline to work with is definitely the best way to improve. Thanks for the post!

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Thanks for the post Zeb...In order to encourage new players to stick with this sim I realised it was important that we have a setup for them that can be left well alone and so allow new players to get 'stuck in' to the fight immediately...Its very important for a lot of new players to be competitive quickly...This allied setup gives that...

    I often hear folks on comms explaining to new players how to keep an eye on their temps and RPM which is simply not necessary and only gives the new players more complications and more things to be concerned about at the very beginning...In short it can put them off....Many new players come from sims/games like WarThunder and we need not put them off in their first few weeks by introducing to them complicated CEM on their first days with us...I still don't use CEM even now...I use these settings...

    A lot of new folks can benefit from this as it can give them the introduction to the sim which they can expand on and to complex engine managements later on when they are more comfortable with the basics of flying and combat...

    Not everyone here wants the extra complications when they are not necessary...A lot of folks just enjoy the fighting and cat and mouse aspect of combat flight sims without too much messing about looking at their cockpit dials...

    I believe its really important for new players....
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Thanks a lot for these tips,Lewis!That encouraged me to leave my trusty Bf 110 in the hangar for some missions and try out the Hurricane.Result:My first air kill on the ATAG server!
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Lewis View Post

    I often hear folks on comms explaining to new players how to keep an eye on their temps and RPM which is simply not necessary
    I believe its really important for new players....
    Why make it easy when you can pretend its harder than it is?
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Thank you very much for this thread. Also for the 109s. As a newcomer it is great to have a baseline to start with CEM. I've fried some engines a few minutes after into combat as I simply forget to watch for the rads/RPMs when dogfighting.

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    After a year of flying the Blennicane, I decided to learn the Spit. This was my first 109 encounter after a few evenings learning the ropes. These settings are the bee's knees.

    Thanks Lew!


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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by 69th_Zeb View Post
    After a year of flying the Blennicane, I decided to learn the Spit. This was my first 109 encounter after a few evenings learning the ropes. These settings are the bee's knees.

    Thanks Lew!

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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Bubble of happiness burst.

    Just kidding. Hope they make it horrendously realistic...giving us the opportunity for new rules of thumb!

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  21. #46
    Combat pilot \Hawk/'s Avatar
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Lewis View Post
    These settings work with BLITZ and CLOD

    Below is a 'set it up and forget about it' setup for allied fighters that you should be able to fly freely without having to look at your dashboard dials at all and therefore be able to concentrate more on other aspects of your flying such as gunnery ,combat and situation awareness (SA). This setup has the flexibility to be tweaked at a later date when players are more comfortable but importantly although is conservative is still highly competitive. You will be able to dogfight competitively and immediately online.. I still use this setup even today after 2,000 hours in this sim...because it works...

    Sometimes you maybe told by experienced players to keep an eye on temperatures and RPMs...IGNORE THEM!...You don't need to do that with this setup!...As a new player you need to start with an easier setup...

    The 3 aircraft that this setup works on is ONLY the Spitfires Ia (100oct) ...Spit IIa and the Hurricane I (Rotol) ...At the moment there is always an option to find at least one if not two, sometimes all three of these aircraft on every map currently in the ATAG online server map rotation. Its important you only pick one of these aircraft as this setup will overheat any of the other aircraft which are a lot less forgiving.


    So firstly you will have to set your engine management window ingame to numerical percentages (%) (Windows section in the 'Beginners Guide' will show you how to do this)..This will then allow us (or anyone) to transfer specific information to your aircraft in the form of numerical values for Throttle, Prop Pitch and Radiator settings (Mix is left alone at 0%). Check bottom left corner of video below to see how this should look in your game.

    So..

    For take off....Put your chocks in...Set your Rad to 100% and throttle to 15% while your engine warms....Wait until your 'Oil Temp' (Orange Dial on right side) reaches 40 degrees.

    Leave your Mixture at 0% and do not touch it at all throughout.

    Then for take off...Chocks out and then...

    TAKE OFF

    Throttle 110% (use Boost for take off)
    Prop 100%
    Rad 75%


    Once airbourne...

    Easy CEM for cruise and dogfight

    Throttle 100%
    Prop 85%
    Rad 75%


    Write the settings down together with the 3 specific aircraft until you know them...

    You can now go off and get stuck into the dogfight....

    So this is a good starting point and will allow you to get busy with the enemy without having any Complex Engine Management (CEM) to worry about....You can also experiment from these settings later if you feel you need to...

    I would also advise at this stage to simply ignore the 'Boost Cut-Out' until you feel comfortable enough that you can experiment with it...Its an engine cooker and the advantage you will gain is minimal...

    Check the bottom left Engine Management window on this video to see how this setting works..





    I hope this helps new players...

    and let me know how you get on...I need all the feedback I can with this

    ...Lew...
    Mondo Appreciate THis!!!!!


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  23. #47
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Brilliant! being a complete newbie this helped a lot thanks.

  24. #48
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    Re: Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for Beginners

    Lewis work is fantastic!
    But be careful, since he wrote this the critical marks for engine management changed with several patches.
    Also some aircraft like the Spit V aor the later Hurricane variants were not in game, when he wrote this.

    Check the flashcards in the 'Manuals' section of the game to find more recent information.

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