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Thread: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

  1. #1
    Dutch
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    Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Hello chaps!

    This issue is causing some debate at the moment, so I thought I'd start a thread here, beginning with a simple single mission to practice with.

    I'm sure you all know this, but unzip and drop it into documents/1C Softclub/IL2 Cliffs/missions/single and away you go.

    You'll spawn at Littlestone, with the target being a collection of armour west of Dunkirk.

    The idea is to bomb from high level, using the bombsight, so the armour is next to a factory that can be found quite easily from the surrounding landmarks.
    There are only two 20mm flak guns, just to provide a bit of local colour as it were!

    Also, Ctrl/F2 will bring up a static camera view of the target.

    Edit: Sorry, forgot. There are 4 barrage balloons surrounding the target at 2000m, so make sure you bomb from above their height (I'm not sure if they'll actually cut your wings off or not)!!

    Edit 2: I haven't managed to bomb the damn target myself as yet, for what it's worth!!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Dutch; Dec-27-2011 at 18:18.

  2. #2
    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Dutch: Good show here: perhaps we should transfer other level bombing posts.

    Here are some photos of the Ammo dump located P-5 near the town of Desvres.
    There is some rather nasty flack, Again another reason to nail down the high altitude bombing.


    Knuckles

    2011-12-27_00001.jpg2011-12-27_00002.jpg2011-12-27_00003.jpg

  3. #3
    Team Fusion ATAG_Bliss's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    That's odd. There should be buildings there!


    "The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself". - Archibald Macleish


  4. #4
    Dutch
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Blimey, can you even see that from 10k ft+ ??

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Yes you can: however after spending about three hours today, the issue is forward visibility. The instrument panel makes it impossible to properly line p the aircraft. The bomb aimers position is just as bad. His Forward panel also makes it impossible to line up. Only at the last minute can you see the target: and that even before "Lean to sight. So that said, until another bomber is available I have concluded we are stuck with Skip/Low level.

    @ Bliss: Here's the funny thing: ATAG Puppet was actually the one that found the ammo dump: He told me it was right next to "Radar Towers" in the photo , no towers. When I returned to attempt high level bombing, the towers were there ?

    Knuckles

  6. #6
    Dutch
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Quote Originally Posted by Knucklebutt View Post
    Yes you can: however after spending about three hours today, the issue is forward visibility.
    Hmmm. Maybe we should try online with a multi-crew as I said at 1C.

    The really annoying bit for me is the lack of head movement available at the bomb aimer's station. If there was true 6DOF available to look forward under the dash, it'd improve things no end.

    I still lose all control of the a/c when in the front seat also, but that's my fault!

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Here are photos of the issued with High Level Bombing. They show the problem of the visibility of Instrument panel and also bomb aimers panel. Photos are labeled

    Bomb Aimers panel.jpgLine up.jpgLine up2.jpgObsceued.jpg

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    This post is a reply from JimBop:
    Location of the Tanks at R-9.3 near the town of Loon-Plage


    Loon-Plage.jpgTanks Here.jpgTanks here1.jpgTanks Here2.jpgTanks Here3.jpgTanks Here4.jpg

    Hope this helps: if not buzz the town and wait until you are fired upon, as you are crashing the last thing you will see are the tanks Muhaaaaaa

    Knuckles

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    In an answer to the failure of the high altitude bombing. I made two low level runs on the tanks. 4 250 lb bombs released from about 300 feet @ 250 mph from a dive made hits both time and eliminate the target and made it home. With 2 Blenheims this target can be eliminated most of the time.

    Bomb Run1.jpgbomb run2.jpgBomb Run3.jpg


    Knuckles

  10. #10
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    The lack of 6DOF certainly makes it difficult. You have to be perfectly trimmed and lined up from quite a distance out and just let it roll in but it can be done, at least up to a point.

    Thanks for the pics, Knucklebutt. I found them today but on my first run confused the group of nine (AA?) for the tanks. If you click and look closely you can see the impact craters:



    Second time round was more successful and this time hit the tanks with a couple of 500lb bombs from 3k feet. A little off target but good enough to clear the objective.



    Level bombing in the Blenheim is certainly possible. It is not easy but practice will pay off. No problems with the flak around this objective at >3k+ feet either.

    The side-slip adjustment of the bombsight is tremendously useful. I first trim to get proper hands free flight (as in go and make a cup of tea and it's still fine a few minutes later) which means I am side-slipping at about +1.0 degrees. I then adjust the sight to -1.0 degrees which compensates for the motion and keeps the target lined up in the rails until release.

  11. #11
    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    JimBop: Great info, I certainly appreciate you working on this as well. I'm going to practice on this today and post my results


    Knuckles

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Hi guys. Don't want to hijack here, but there's been some reports that buildings over targets have not been showing up (on server #2) We think it was a script/mission issue as a new form of stats in currently being tested.

    Hopefully it's all fixed now. So please let us know either way, if you see the buildings showing up now.

    Thanks!


    "The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself". - Archibald Macleish


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    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    ATAG_Bliss:

    Just yesterday as I approached the target at P-5 there were several "Radar Towers" on my second run at the target they were gone. I'll certainly observes this and report any abnormalities. (that was an awfully large word for me) whew!


    Knuckles

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Another attempt at high level bombing. As 10,000 was really hard to line up due to restricted visability, I tried 5,000. Not much better. As the photo shows, I just could not get properly lined and dropped bombs to the left of target, with very poor results.

    So at this point it seems quicker to just roll in low level with no more that 2 Blenheims which will eliminate the target. To get to high level can take up to 15 minutes extra.

    2011-12-30_00001.jpg
    2011-12-30_00002.jpg2011-12-30_00003.jpg2011-12-30_00004.jpg

  15. #15
    Dutch
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    That's way better than any of my high level efforts to date Knuckles.

    That directional difficulty would be doubled at 10k ft, which was where my difficulties were coming in.

    As soon as I was near enough to target to see it from the front seat, the amount of steering of the aircraft needed to get on target got me too unstable, or too many adjustments were needed to the sight, or altitude and speed corrections meant I arrived at target with too much bank on the wings, or I was crossing the target at a large angle with lots of sideslip going on. Nightmare.

    Now that's made me feel like having another go.:Grin:

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Here's my Blenheim level bombing video. I find +5k very difficult and could not reliably take out a target at 10k. Yes at 3-5k.

    Last edited by Jimbop; Jan-02-2012 at 17:41.

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Very good JimBop. If I could develop a formula to keep that dang Blenheim steady, I would certainly hit more of the target. I still think limited visibility is the issue


    ATAG_Knuckles

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    There's no doubt that the view in the cockpit is very poor without 6DOF enabled. Hopefully it is added. Without this and also a horizontal stabilizer for >5k altitude I don't think the Blenheim will give a guaranteed hit. Is this a problem? Not sure...

    A flight of three or more competent pilots would take out most targets from 10k so maybe cooperative online play is the solution. This seems realistic, too.

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    cooperative online play is the solution.

    Thats kinda where I'm going with all this. Although right now its pretty much just a free for all dog fight, hopefully in the future there will be a winning factor by using a bomber.

    JimBop: ya ever see me in the server give me a holler: would love to practice with 2 or 3 in formation


    ATAG_Knuckles

    also need to try out my new profile for the Turret

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Will do, would be good to practice. Maybe the next bomber's night can be red...

  21. #21
    Dutch
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbop View Post
    Will do, would be good to practice. Maybe the next bomber's night can be red...
    Maybe one day when there are enough guys flying the Blenny, we'd be able to convince Bliss and Watchman to do the work needed!

    In the meantime I'd be happy to see a squad night organised for server 2, but the issue there is that the three main contributors to this thread are spread over 3/4 of the globe!

    The vid is excellent Jimbop, good tip to line up the vertical on the dash.

    Will have another go today. :Grin:

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch View Post
    Maybe one day when there are enough guys flying the Blenny, we'd be able to convince Bliss and Watchman to do the work needed!

    In the meantime I'd be happy to see a squad night organised for server 2, but the issue there is that the three main contributors to this thread are spread over 3/4 of the globe!

    The vid is excellent Jimbop, good tip to line up the vertical on the dash.

    Will have another go today. :Grin:
    Thanks for sharing your wisdom chaps, much appreciated.

    I would like to join up for any Bomber squad nights. I fly the Blemmy only when I have the patience to risk blowing the engines 30 minutes into a sortie but the more practice, the less this should happen, I hope.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Knuckles's Avatar
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    To All:

    My main objective in all this test and practice is that I see the future in COD for bombers. When this does become a reality, the new people will have instructors !.

    @Septic: Rarely do I ever have engine problems, but that has been due to countless hours discovering exactly what this aircraft requires: and trust me I am VERY busy monitoring, RPM: Climb Speed: Cowl Flaps: level speed: Boost: well you get the picture. But that where i get my enjoyment:

    Eventually what I am looking at is a "Bomber Group" in ATAG. that the C/O can call upon in any "special Opps"

    ATAG_Knuckles

  24. #24
    Dutch
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knuckles View Post
    Eventually what I am looking at is a "Bomber Group" in ATAG. that the C/O can call upon in any "special Opps"
    Well that'd be 'sound as a pound' as we say over here. :Grin:

    Meanwhile, here's my first successful level bombing sortie, done in the mission I posted above.

    I've got a feeling it was more luck than good technique as you'll see, but 1 bomb fell in the centre of the target. If you look closely, some of the static armour disappears as the bomb explodes.

    Watch in full screen @ 1080p and you can see the targets in the bombsight from 6000ft.


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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Dutch:
    Again very well done: Perhaps thats the best the real Blenheim could do, and thats certainly the exact results I have been getting. So here's the point I have been suggesting: For the amount of time spent climbing to target and attempting to line up< could we not have achieved the same results or certainly better by just going in low level high speed, and then straight on out ?? again this is mainly for the purpose to instruct those that get interested in the Blenheim ???


    ATAG_Knuckles

    P.S. I'm going to start utilizing your mission to see if I can come up with any techniques.

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Great stuff, Dutch, but you're not supposed to sound surprised when you hit it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knuckles View Post
    Dutch:
    Again very well done: Perhaps thats the best the real Blenheim could do, and thats certainly the exact results I have been getting. So here's the point I have been suggesting: For the amount of time spent climbing to target and attempting to line up< could we not have achieved the same results or certainly better by just going in low level high speed, and then straight on out ?? again this is mainly for the purpose to instruct those that get interested in the Blenheim ???
    Yes, I'm getting the same results at these altitudes. I prefer around 3000-4000 since a hit is pretty much guaranteed but the effects of flak are reduced. Try a lower altitude boom the blue targets on ATAG #1, especially at Saint Inglevert, and you'll get a surprise.

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Septic View Post
    I fly the Blemmy only when I have the patience to risk blowing the engines 30 minutes into a sortie but the more practice, the less this should happen, I hope.
    I find the most risky times are takeoff and when approaching the target. The former because there are so many things to do and the engines are stressed, the latter since you are distracted and the cursed cylinder head temps are difficult to see. A good, long run up tends to negate the latter, though.

    Usually all I have to worry about on final approach is a 109 up my trumpet!

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    O.K. Gang

    Bomb Aimer profile is complete !!

    Lets go bomb stuff !!!!!!

    ATAG_Knuckles

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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knuckles View Post
    O.K. Gang

    Bomb Aimer profile is complete !!

    Lets go bomb stuff !!!!!!

    ATAG_Knuckles
    This might be in the wrong thread but currently dissuading me from using the Blenheim on ATAG 1 is the position of the airfield. It's too frustrating warming one up only to be strafed on the ground. Is it possible to ground start a Blenheim further North? I do use the air-start occasionally but it is less rewarding.

  30. #30
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    Re: Level Bombing in the Blenheim

    Septic:

    You do have a point: What I have noticed is the enemy usually goes for Lympne or Hawkage straying often to Littlestone. If I spawn and see Littlestone flack, I will just wait, if there is flack Lympne or north I will take off but keep it at about 200 feet and sneak out to sea a little south. Their just not looking south or sea level, so far (knock on wood) its worked every time




    Knuckles

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