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Thread: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    The 3 or 4 option.

    And I have downloaded cr3 on my phone. And I use this tool to to calculate angle correction.
    Last edited by SG1_sandokito; May-15-2014 at 16:14.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    And I have downloaded cr3 on my phone. And I use this tool to to calculate angle correction.
    You can explain more this?

    If prefer, write in Spanish.

    Sokol1

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    So, I'll plead ignorance here but...

    In my offline bombing attempts at 10,000 on Calaise Mark I was nearly dead center using IAS (200-210) vs. TAS (230-240) - with IAS I was nearly dead on, TAS always hit short of target.


    "My idea of flying is to have a group take off together, stick together, fight together, try to accomplish the mission together and hopefully all land together" - AKA_Recon

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    You can explain more this?

    If prefer, write in Spanish.

    Sokol1
    Yes. you have on android marquet, one aplication callet CR3 flight Computer.now in spanish.

    En esta aplicacion tienes una opcion, que es wind.

    Metes tu rumbo al obj, la Tas , de donde pega el viento, y la velocidad del mismo y me da el rumbo que tendría que llevar y la tas con la correccion correcta.
    ejemplo.

    course to target 354
    Tas 350
    wind heading(from) 120
    wind Speed 72KM/h (20m/s)

    resultado
    heading 4
    Etas 345

    ahora de 354 a 4, deduzco que para ir al obj tengo que ir 10 grados a la derecha, con lo que en la mira programo 10 a la izquierda.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Recon View Post
    So, I'll plead ignorance here but...

    In my offline bombing attempts at 10,000 on Calaise Mark I was nearly dead center using IAS (200-210) vs. TAS (230-240) - with IAS I was nearly dead on, TAS always hit short of target.
    But one cuestion. You need correct on your tas wind influence

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by SG1_sandokito View Post
    So, I'll plead ignorance here but...

    In my offline bombing attempts at 10,000 on Calaise Mark I was nearly dead center using IAS (200-210) vs. TAS (230-240) - with IAS I was nearly dead on, TAS always hit short of target.
    But one cuestion. You need correct on your tas wind influence.
    Considering map default wind of 3 m/s ~7 MPH to 90 (FROM 270), the influence over TAS (232 - IAS 200@10000 game charts) is minimal in resultant CAS... ~7 MPH more or less (if fly 270 or 90).

    Using the E6-B emulator, (his OAT factor 2 is above game charts) the CAS is 247 or 233 MPH (downwind or against)...

    200 MPH @ 10000 > TAS 240 > CAS (wind 3 m/s ~7 MPH) = 247 or 233.

    BTW - At 10000 fts (~3.000) meters) the temperature in middle of Channel is -3.5 degrees (He 111 thermometer).
    Is -6.8 at 3.500 and 3.2 at 2.000 meters.

    This CAS>TAS allow enter the temperature, but the result is similar to CloD tables.

    http://www.kilohotel.com/cgi-bin/cas2tas.py

    The matter still confuse...

    Sokol1

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Bomber Calculator for il-2('46) - with adjusts for "Dr.Who'leg World".

    http://www1.bbiq.jp/~zhukov/calc/calc.html
    http://www1.bbiq.jp/~zhukov/calc/calc_wind.html

    The result TAS is similar to CloD charts.

    course to target 354
    Tas 350
    wind heading(from) 120
    wind Speed 72KM/h (20m/s)

    resultado
    heading 4
    Etas 345

    ahora de 354 a 4, deduzco que para ir al obj tengo que ir 10 grados a la derecha, con lo que en la mira programo 10 a la izquierda.
    Sandokito,

    These data show that you are talking about He111/Ju88 (TAS 350), here is discussed Blenheim, that see use different (Dr.Who'leg) rules.

    Sokol1
    Last edited by 1lokos; May-15-2014 at 18:49.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    The AO squad confirmed that it works with blemmheim.

    postd by armanGT
    Bueno Sando la trasnochada de ayer sirvió para algo, te confirmo todo lo que hablamos ayer, después estuve haciendo pruebas a 14.000 pies con el mismo objetivo y viento, entrándole en 3 rumbos diferentes (viento de cara, viento de cola y viento totalmente lateral) e hice blanco de lleno en las 3 pruebas, eso sí, en los tres utilicé la TAS y no la IAS, así que la TAS si esta implementada. Resumiendo, calculamos la TAS la corregimos con los valores de viento (sumándolo, restándolo o desviando la mira con los grados del calculador que te pasé), e introduzco en la mira la altitud - 100 pies - altura de objetivo y en la velocidad la TAS resultante - 10 mph y PREMIO!..

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Can someone explain how to use the side slip angle ? I saw in vid you fine tune it (while looking slip indicator ?).
    In the lofte7 or Blenny stuff, what in fact this adjustment do ?
    In calculator, it gives a value also. For example if calculator gives +2°, how do you use this info ?
    Last edited by Gix; May-16-2014 at 04:13.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Influence of Altimeter adjust in TAS, accord the "Bomber Calculator". Not that help for something...

    - The CloD map temperature at ground level - He 111 thermometer in Lympne - is 12º C between 6:00 and 19:00 hs (no more change across the day like in "release" version...)

    Blenheim Altimeter with default adjust - 1013 Mbar (1013 hPa or 759mmHG on Bomber Calculator) what is set for Altitude = 900 feet.
    200 MPH @ 10.000 > TAS = 232 MPH (match with chart on manual).

    Altimeter adjusted for 995 Mbar - Altitude = 0 feet (sea level).
    200 MPH @ 10.000 > TAS = 234 MPH

    Altimeter adjusted for 940 Mbar - minimum adjust, Altitude = -1000 feet...
    20.000 MPH @ 10.000 > TAS = 240 MPH

    Sokol1

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Gix View Post
    Can someone explain how to use the side slip angle ? I saw in vid you fine tune it (while looking slip indicator ?).
    In the lofte7 or Blenny stuff, what in fact this adjustment do ?
    In calculator, it gives a value also. For example if calculator gives +2°, how do you use this info ?
    if your course to target is 5, and on calculator you have +2. You need put 7 course. and you need adjust de bomb sigh 2 grades to the left.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Gix View Post
    Can someone explain how to use the side slip angle ? I saw in vid you fine tune it (while looking slip indicator ?).
    In the lofte7 or Blenny stuff, what in fact this adjustment do ?
    In calculator, it gives a value also. For example if calculator gives +2°, how do you use this info ?

    Gix,

    "Side Slip" is to compensate the wind influence in your heading.

    Taking the Sandokito example:

    Course to target = 354
    TAS = 350
    Wind heading (from) = 120
    Wind Speed = 72KM/h (20m/s)

    After input this data on CR-3 Flight Computer emulator, give:

    Heading = 4 <<< This is the actual heading that plane should fly under a wind coming from Right/back - that drift the plane for left and increase his speed - to maintain the pretend 354 course.
    ETAS = 345 <<< This is the TAS correct with wind influence, the "Ground Speed" on Blenheim bombsight - the scale hidden behind Altitude scale (visible if you adjust drift +10 or -10 degrees).

    "ahora de 354 a 4, deduzco que para ir al obj tengo que ir 10 grados a la derecha, con lo que en la mira programo 10 a la izquierda. "

    He say that need steer the plane 10 degrees for right (from 354) to maintain a true 354 heading, and due this adjust the "Side Splip" 10 degrees for left to maintaim the aim point.

    You can do this adjust visually, aim for some point in the scenery ahead in your path and adjust "Side Slip" until the point slide between the black and white lines on bombsight.

    On He 111/Ju 88 to adjust "Side Slip" engage the bombsight automation, the cross should remain static on aim point - Caution, if are done this before the target dont let the cross move all the way down, or you
    drop the bombs on some poor cows.

    Using the "Flight Computer" emulator, E6-B, CR-3, DR-2... you simplify this.

    You can use these online emulator in flight (online/offline) open his page in STEAM browser (Shift+Tab) over the game.

    BTW - All this is "theory" in practice my bomb result is like this.

    Sokol1
    Last edited by 1lokos; May-17-2014 at 12:14.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    using the IAS + 10 methodology... I had some good success last night on ATAG.

    1. there was a 6 knot wind from the SE
    2. I slight bombed 'long' from my direction, and applied slight side slip
    3. first run at 10k, second run at 13k

    Was dead on - on a thin airfield strip.

    Still experimenting and I need to get back to you on the wind I used in my test mission


    "My idea of flying is to have a group take off together, stick together, fight together, try to accomplish the mission together and hopefully all land together" - AKA_Recon

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Testing offline, using IAS +10, ~10 degrees of flap, ~2.200 RPM.


    Point aimed, the road in 1st and roads X on 2nd, drop when target pass on black box on bombsight.

    Autopilot in mode 22 without oscillation - just engaged when Variometer is near 0.

    If convert to IAS>TAS will use 170, this dont cause the bomb hit more ahead?

    Wind default on QM - probable 3 m/s to 90.

    Sokol1

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by SG1_sandokito View Post
    The AO squad confirmed that it works with blemmheim.

    postd by armanGT
    Bueno Sando la trasnochada de ayer sirvió para algo, te confirmo todo lo que hablamos ayer, después estuve haciendo pruebas a 14.000 pies con el mismo objetivo y viento, entrándole en 3 rumbos diferentes (viento de cara, viento de cola y viento totalmente lateral) e hice blanco de lleno en las 3 pruebas, eso sí, en los tres utilicé la TAS y no la IAS, así que la TAS si esta implementada. Resumiendo, calculamos la TAS la corregimos con los valores de viento (sumándolo, restándolo o desviando la mira con los grados del calculador que te pasé), e introduzco en la mira la altitud - 100 pies - altura de objetivo y en la velocidad la TAS resultante - 10 mph y PREMIO!..
    Yo al final me líe escribiendo el post con tantas pruebas y demás, en el Blenheim se usa la IAS, correcto, la TAS no funciona.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Armand Gt posted,
    He wrong to write, and you need use the CR3 using ias. sorry all for confusion

    1lokos, yes if you no edit this on a mission, the wing is 3m/s to 90
    Last edited by SG1_sandokito; May-21-2014 at 09:26.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    The scale on left side of Wimperis is for set the Ground Speed (TAS + wind correction),
    but seems the MG calibrated for IAS...



    The puzzling is that some "swear" that using TAS hit better ...

    He wrong to write, and you need use the CR3 using ias. sorry all for confusion
    Sandokito.

    OK. ArmanGT inform that he mistake TAS with IAS on report, and in tact are using IAS, correct?

    And you advise use IAS on CR-3 computation to determine wind influence?

    Thank you.

    Sokol1
    Last edited by 1lokos; May-21-2014 at 13:53.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Hi All,

    Here comes My tuppence:

    clodTASimperialEXCEL.jpg

    This picture is the CLOD Manual data copied into a spreadsheet and averaged for the values in between.


    Now THIS is the same chart calculated using the 2% per thousand foot altitude rule-of-thumb.


    clodTASimperialEXCEL Calculated.jpg


    And there are some differences.


    This next chart shows how much the calculated values differs from the printed values.
    It's colour coded to show just how much different the calculations are from the manual.

    clodTASimperialEXCEL Difference.jpg

    Okay so something is making the TAS different for different speeds.

    The temperature gradient through the atmosphere looks like this:Atmospheric Temperature Gradient.gif

    So up to 30,000' the temperature drops from 15 degrees C down to -38 degrees C.
    Now colder air is denser air, which should make the IAS indicate HIGHER for a given true TAS.

    But the problem (for me) is that the amount of difference between the Manual and the Calculated TAS is not consistent.


    Does anyone know how the developers came up with the values for the table?
    Does anyone know what formula they are using (in-game) to adjust TAS for height and temperature?

    And YES Virginia I am making a Bombing calculator.
    I know the LOTFE one is very good, I am trying to do similar for the allies.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...alculator.xlsx
    Last edited by Decay; Sep-12-2014 at 00:59. Reason: Further Info.

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Decay View Post
    Now THIS is the same chart calculated using the 2% per thousand foot altitude rule-of-thumb.

    clodTASimperialEXCEL Calculated.jpg
    Yes, the 2% general rule don't prevail for "Dr.Who'leg world" - the factor used there is less and varies with altitude...

    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...2&d=1400083251

    BTW - the Dropbox link is dead.

    Sokol1

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    This is fantastic! Thanks a lot, I'll be making use of this!

    OD

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    This was great and answered so many question I have had.

    Thanks for all the work.
    Damon

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Interesting video about Wimperis Mk.IX - although not the exact model of bombsight, show how CloD Blenheim bombsight is poor implemented, they just loose time make the thing in 3D... for ending use the IL-2:46 bombsight "HUD" operation.

    The "compass" at base of bombsight is not a "repeater compass" as modeled in CloD, but wind angle adjust ( 6:00 ) drift calculator.

    Curious is that in IL-2:Bo'X, with their simplified "Android screen" bombsight - that convert IAS to TAS automatically, the wind angle need be adjusted.



    "...red over red".

    Wimperis Mk.IX technical manual: http://canadianflight.org/files/bombsight1.pdf

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    Re: Blenheim High-Altitude Level Bombing Guide

    Description of Wimperis Mk.I bombsight operation - basically the same for latter models.

    Wimperis operation1.jpg

    Double click over image for see full size.

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